Discussion:
Another bullshit article about the homeless
(too old to reply)
Garth Foster
2004-04-10 02:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?

First of all why werent the homeless people depicted in the article
identified. Why was there photo taken from behind? Well Ive worked
that out. Homelessness is some thing to be ashamed of. If your
genuinely homeless in the ACT your very likely either a crim or a
looney. Course most people who are classified as homeless arent
genuine cases. As the article said "of the 1229 people classed as
homeless . . . the vast majority were relying on family and friends
for accommodation".

Lets consider the 2 cases they interviewed - Steve 17 & Raz 19.

CT - Steve, who has lived in a refuge on the south side of Canberra
for the last 13 months, considers himself lucky to have a place to
stay after moving around several times since family trouble drove him
out of his parents' South Coast home.
COMMENT - So what was the family trouble? Did his family kick him out
because he was a lazy bum or what? Was he perhaps the cause of the
"family trouble"?
CT - Raz has lived in three refuges and only recently secured a public
housing unit. She has been forced to live with drug addicts and
criminals in the past and her mother has recently become homeless.
COMMENT - Ah. Forced to live with addicts and criminals. That only
happens in jails or looney bins. But whats the relevance of the bit
about her mother? And what of her father? Uncles & aunts?
CT - Steve knows what it's like to be without any shelter, having
slept rough in long grass in Tuggeranong, and says society makes life
very difficult for young people. He is not surprised that more young
people are finding themselves homeless. "Society is just f ----- up
... You do one thing wrong, and then that's it, you're out," he said.
COMMENT - Ah. He apears to be antisocial. And are we to understand he
has a criminal past?

In my opinion readers would appreciate a more forthright approach by
journalists writing about the homeless - perhaps a few blunt questions
to the vermin they find on the streets rather than just an invitation
to winge about what society has done to them. Plus if these people get
to tell there story to the paper I want to see there faces in the
picture. That way if theyve dished up a load of bullshit people who
know the true story can phone up the newspaper & spill the beans.
Moll Flanders
2004-04-10 03:18:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garth Foster
Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
The point is that there is currently a live dispute between the feds and the
States/Territories about the future funding of programs for the homeless.
It's not a topic of much interest to most people, but there is a campaign
on.

Haven't you noticed? Be a bit hard with your head up your arse.
~Nins~
2004-04-10 04:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Garth Foster wrote:
|| Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
|| What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
|| topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?

<snipped because the comments are sickening>

I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find yourself
in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they got
there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I'm
not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you should
extend a helping hand in some way. There may be some of those interviewed
who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in turning
the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had been at
the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the beginning,
and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental duties
to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.

The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some people
who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off! :(
Granbob
2004-04-10 06:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
|| Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
|| What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
|| topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
<snipped because the comments are sickening>
I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find yourself
in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they got
there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I'm
not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you should
extend a helping hand in some way. There may be some of those interviewed
who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in turning
the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had been at
the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the beginning,
and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental duties
to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.
The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some people
who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off! :(
There are sick people who can only get a hard-on by salivating over the
misfortunes of others in every society. And although it makes your skin
crawl to think that they share the same planet, it's better to let them
get their rocks off by posting their bile in these newsgroups than to
have them running loose on the streets and setting fire to homeless
people or dismembering cats.
Andy
2004-04-10 23:02:38 UTC
Permalink
"Granbob" <***@large.com> wrote in message news:***@large.com...
|
|
| ~Nins~ wrote:
| > Garth Foster wrote:
| > || Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
| > || What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
| > || topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
| >
| > <snipped because the comments are sickening>
| >
| > I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find
yourself
| > in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they
got
| > there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to do.
I'm
| > not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you
should
| > extend a helping hand in some way. There may be some of those
interviewed
| > who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
| > provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in
turning
| > the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had
been at
| > the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the
beginning,
| > and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental
duties
| > to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
| > bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.
| >
| > The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some
people
| > who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off!
:(
| >
| >
|
| There are sick people who can only get a hard-on by salivating over the
| misfortunes of others in every society. And although it makes your skin
| crawl to think that they share the same planet, it's better to let them
| get their rocks off by posting their bile in these newsgroups than to
| have them running loose on the streets and setting fire to homeless
| people or dismembering cats.


Goody two shoes
The Enlightenment
2004-04-10 06:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
|| Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on
homelessness.
Post by ~Nins~
|| What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
|| topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
<snipped because the comments are sickening>
I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find yourself
in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they got
there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to
do.

What does "its the right thing to do" mean. Explain what's right
about it?

The parents are negligent, low sense of responsibility, unloving,
temperemental and their children may even be unloved bastards and we
are supposed to raise their children for them at the expense of our
own?

The children are wilfull, undisciplined, arrogant and have
Post by ~Nins~
I'm
not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you should
extend a helping hand in some way.
Well do it in your own time with your own money and resources. Not
mine or anyone elses.

It's obvious that these people are being helped in some way and have
basic shelter from the elements and basic sustenance. A little less
help might do them even more good.

"Are you you're brother keeper?"

These people have mental disabilities, inherent familial problems that
will probably repeat indefinetly, drug addictions etc. That's a
tragedy but it is not my or any other Australians problem to solve for
them. We already pay over 40% tax and every dollar taken from a
normal family that forces them to have one less child or one less well
educated child is a perversity.
Post by ~Nins~
There may be some of those interviewed
who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in turning
the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had been at
the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the
beginning,
Post by ~Nins~
and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental duties
to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.
The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some people
who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off! :(
We do as much as we can. Leave the compassion to the Charities. What
there is of the social security system is enough to stop strarvation
or death from exposure.

So many times the tragedy of such people, who more then likely or not
have some genetic defect, is used to promote a political agenda (eg
socialism) or more perversely for 'guilt mongers' to promote their
moral superiority.
~Nins~
2004-04-10 16:58:09 UTC
Permalink
The Enlightenment wrote:
|| What does "its the right thing to do" mean. Explain what's right
|| about it?

Isn't it obvious, to display compassion is wrong? To extend your hand, in
some form, to another who is less fortunate or not, in compassion is more
right than it is wrong.

|| The parents are negligent, low sense of responsibility, unloving,
|| temperemental and their children may even be unloved bastards and we
|| are supposed to raise their children for them at the expense of our
|| own?

The expense of extending a helping hand is far less than the expense of
raising one of your own. I'm not saying take what is needed from your own.
It doesn't have to be in the form of money. If you know of a place that is
hiring labor, direct one to it. If you buy a sandwich, but another one, and
give it to one, or eat half of your sandwich and give the other half to
one. Smile at one, treat one with respect so they can at least maintain
their dignity. Give one directions to a shelter.

The amount of money spent by the government on nonsense could be directed
into building shelters and providing food to those who are hungry. We have
a samaritan center manned by people from different churches, religions, and
they depend on volunteers and donations from citizens. People who go
grocery shopping buy a little extra and take that extra to the center.
There are many ways for people to address this problem, and ways for the
government to do so as well.

|| The children are wilfull, undisciplined, arrogant and have

They are developing youths. There are adults your description would fit.

|| Well do it in your own time with your own money and resources. Not
|| mine or anyone elses.

Ah, so you don't want to pay taxes which may end up being used to help fund
shelters and such for those who are less fortunate? What if you lost your
job, lost everything? And you ended up needing some type of government
assistance? Would you not seek it or would you refuse it because you feel
as stated above?

|| It's obvious that these people are being helped in some way and have
|| basic shelter from the elements and basic sustenance. A little less
|| help might do them even more good.

There are many who do not have the luxury of these shelters and sustenance.
This problem is growing and it isn't going to go away, not in Australia, not
in the USA, not anywhere. As individuals we have to do something, no matter
how small it might be, but this is a problem that needs to be addressed by
the government as well.

|| These people have mental disabilities, inherent familial problems
|| that will probably repeat indefinetly, drug addictions etc. That's a
|| tragedy but it is not my or any other Australians problem to solve
|| for them. We already pay over 40% tax and every dollar taken from a
|| normal family that forces them to have one less child or one less
|| well educated child is a perversity.

No one is asking you to solve their problems. Be open to the chance of
providing the opportunities for them to get their problems addressed, or at
least ease their suffering in some small way. Perhaps the government should
look into their spending habits and redirect funds from those areas into
that which could facilitate addressing the aforementioned, rather than
raising your taxes?

|| We do as much as we can. Leave the compassion to the Charities.
|| What there is of the social security system is enough to stop
|| strarvation or death from exposure.

Youths receive social security?

|| So many times the tragedy of such people, who more then likely or not
|| have some genetic defect, is used to promote a political agenda (eg
|| socialism) or more perversely for 'guilt mongers' to promote their
|| moral superiority.

Genetic defect? You don't know that, and if they do, so what? It has
little to do with agenda or superiority, but more to do with looking at the
problem and being realistic about it. It's a growing problem. They are
citizens of the country, too.
Jacques Schidt
2004-04-10 19:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
|| What does "its the right thing to do" mean. Explain what's right
|| about it?
Isn't it obvious, to display compassion is wrong? To extend your
hand, in some form, to another who is less fortunate or not, in
compassion is more right than it is wrong.
The unenlightened moron would be calling for compulsory euthenasia at age
65, except that his ideological master Howard the dinosaur would be dead.
Edge
2004-04-10 20:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacques Schidt
The unenlightened moron would be calling for compulsory euthenasia at age
65, except that his ideological master Howard the dinosaur would be dead.
And in every discussion you have to have one complete shit for brains ....
and here we have it...... can't follow the discussion so makes it up as
he goes along ....
Edge
2004-04-10 20:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
Isn't it obvious, to display compassion is wrong?
Nope, but to condemn others for not doing so based upon a namby pamby feel
good compassion that lacks any basis in fact is wrong.

and to hang out in Australian newsgroups and comment abuot Australian issues
when you're not Australian is perdy wrong too ...
Post by ~Nins~
To extend your hand, in
some form, to another who is less fortunate or not, in compassion is more
right than it is wrong.
how about finding out the true story first? Some people deserve compassion
and others really need a good knock on the head to wake them up to reality
... unfortunately the do gooders pander to that type of person.
Post by ~Nins~
The amount of money spent by the government on nonsense could be directed
into building shelters and providing food to those who are hungry. We have
a samaritan center manned by people from different churches, religions, and
they depend on volunteers and donations from citizens. People who go
grocery shopping buy a little extra and take that extra to the center.
There are many ways for people to address this problem, and ways for the
government to do so as well.
And who's arse will the government pull this money out of?
~Nins~
2004-04-10 23:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Edge wrote:
|| and to hang out in Australian newsgroups and comment abuot
|| Australian issues when you're not Australian is perdy wrong too ...

I'm visiting an open and unmoderated NG where I thought there were nice
people, and still think it. It is not exclusively an Australian issue, and
if my posting was read I noted such, and it would have been noted by reading
them that the majority of what I said was in a general sense that could
apply to the homeless problem in any country. So tell me, exactly how is it
wrong to visit this NG? My reasons for checking out Australian NGs has been
posted by me in the past, they are my reasons. You never visit US groups
on Usenet, at all, why not? As far as condemning, well my opinion
doubtfully will sway anyone here, just as the opinions and the somemtimes
condemnation of the USA as expressed here and there will doubtfully sway me.

|| And who's arse will the government pull this money out of?

As I mentioned, perhaps they could redirect money they spend on other things
that are nonsense, as in nonessential, if those are there.
Andy
2004-04-11 00:42:48 UTC
Permalink
"~Nins~" <***@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:Uw%dc.8557$***@attbi_s52...
| Edge wrote:
| || and to hang out in Australian newsgroups and comment abuot
| || Australian issues when you're not Australian is perdy wrong too ...
|
| I'm visiting an open and unmoderated NG where I thought there were nice
| people, and still think it. It is not exclusively an Australian issue,
and
| if my posting was read I noted such, and it would have been noted by
reading
| them that the majority of what I said was in a general sense that could
| apply to the homeless problem in any country. So tell me, exactly how is
it
| wrong to visit this NG? My reasons for checking out Australian NGs has
been
| posted by me in the past, they are my reasons. You never visit US groups
| on Usenet, at all, why not?


Too many Yanks to deal with. Will soon be cured by sending more soldiers to
Iraq.
Edge
2004-04-11 02:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
I'm visiting an open and unmoderated NG where I thought there were nice
people, and still think it.
As being different from hanging out with your own sort?
Post by ~Nins~
It is not exclusively an Australian issue,
Actually, I disagree .. the issue relates to a lot of factors including how
the government deals with it .. this is vastly different between the 2
countries.
Post by ~Nins~
and
if my posting was read I noted such, and it would have been noted by reading
them that the majority of what I said was in a general sense that could
apply to the homeless problem in any country.
Read above
Post by ~Nins~
So tell me, exactly how is it
wrong to visit this NG?
How long did it take to realise that AUS = AUSTRALIA and not AUSTIN/TEXASS
Post by ~Nins~
My reasons for checking out Australian NGs has been
posted by me in the past, they are my reasons.
I'm visiting the group because people insist in cross posting ... that
can't be your excuse
Post by ~Nins~
You never visit US groups
on Usenet, at all,
From time to time if I have a valid reason or feel the need to set the
ferals off....
Post by ~Nins~
why not?
Because many of your countrymen have the IQ of a gnat.
Post by ~Nins~
As far as condemning, well my opinion
doubtfully will sway anyone here, just as the opinions and the somemtimes
condemnation of the USA as expressed here and there will doubtfully sway me.
I've found that most Merkins who drift into our groups are just itching for
a fight with anyone who isn't 100% up their arses.....
Post by ~Nins~
As I mentioned, perhaps they could redirect money they spend on other things
that are nonsense, as in nonessential, if those are there.
Exactly my point. You appear to have no idea of how our system works and
how the money is distributed, and yet you are commenting. Your comments are
as valid as my comments on the monetary distribution of your country would
be .. Perhaps you ought to start your conversation on finding out about our
system BEFORE you comment upon it? I'm sure many here could enlighten you.

I'd also be just a tad reluctant to believe everything you read in the
press. After all, your countries "freedom of the press" rates even lower
than ours!
~Nins~
2004-04-11 04:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Edge wrote:
|| "~Nins~" <***@mchsi.com> wrote in message
|| news:Uw%dc.8557$***@attbi_s52...
|||
||| I'm visiting an open and unmoderated NG where I thought there were
||| nice people, and still think it.
||
|| As being different from hanging out with your own sort?

My "own sort"? LoL, actually I do hang out with my "own sort", and find
them just as nice, and some not so nice, same as here.
[In the forest be a clearing where trueness of color and truth dwell.]

|| Actually, I disagree .. the issue relates to a lot of factors
|| including how the government deals with it .. this is vastly
|| different between the 2 countries.

Perhaps, matter of opinion really.

|| How long did it take to realise that AUS = AUSTRALIA and not
|| AUSTIN/TEXASS

As mentioned, I have my reason(s) of which I posted in the past in another
group, not my problem if you didn't see it. Are you so prejudiced against
Americans that you can't handle a visit from a petite American? Gosh, I
didn't realize I was such an intimidating figure. It must be the new perm.

|| I'm visiting the group because people insist in cross posting ...
|| that can't be your excuse

Nope, it isn't. As far as the canb.general group in this thread, my
newsserver doesn't carry it, so I'll remove it from this one.

|| From time to time if I have a valid reason or feel the need to set
|| the ferals off....

Never to just visit or to learn more about others abroad? Those are two of
my reasons, another reason is related to my son.

|| Because many of your countrymen have the IQ of a gnat.

You don't know that. What exactly is the IQ of a gnat?

|| I've found that most Merkins who drift into our groups are just
|| itching for a fight with anyone who isn't 100% up their arses.....

Cute little names you have for us. I just like to express my opinion and
communicate with others, if you choose to see it as picking a fight, well I
can't control how you see it. I must admit I find it amusing the
differences in language, definitions, spelling, such as: "arse" is ass here;
"merkin" and "seppo" IIRC are labels there for Americans ("yank" I can
understand, yank--yankee) and Australians are Aussies here or just
Australians; and, root has one meaning of cheering here whereas it has a
completely different meaning there, yet we are sometimes slammed for our
usage of the English language. I don't necessarily see the differences as a
bad thing, different places, different people, and we all condemn each other
at one time or another, don't we? ;) I have opinions you don't exactly like,
should you expect me to not post them where I visit, or to not visit at all?
Should I expect you not to express the opinions you have in response to
mine? No, to both questions.

|| Exactly my point. You appear to have no idea of how our system
|| works and how the money is distributed, and yet you are commenting.
|| Your comments are as valid as my comments on the monetary
|| distribution of your country would be .. Perhaps you ought to start
|| your conversation on finding out about our system BEFORE you comment
|| upon it? I'm sure many here could enlighten you.

Oh come on now, your government does not allocate money to certain programs
that might not necessarily be essential? What government doesn't? I was
commenting on the main issue as I saw it, and that is the homeless problem
that is worldwide. As far as any comments about your government take them
and apply as they may or may not apply, whichever. Do you know all there is
to know about my government? I'll tell you one thing about the spending of
my government that I don't necessarily like, although it may be trivial to
some, is the amount of money they spend on office furniture and supplies
when they could get the same items (paper, pencils, etc) for a fraction of
the cost elsewhere. It's all about padding the pockets.

|| I'd also be just a tad reluctant to believe everything you read in
|| the press. After all, your countries "freedom of the press" rates
|| even lower than ours!

I learned years ago that what is put out by the media is sometimes, if not
most of the time, for ratings essentially. I read from different sources,
and one way I've found to get a reasonable idea of the thinking of people
from other places, is to visit and sometimes engage them. I hold no
animosity for any of you, but I may disagree with you from time to time. If
you don't like it, well, sorry you feel that way. I'll still visit and post
wherever. One thing I like about the aus.politics group is the amount of
posts in comparison to the us.politics group seems to be less, which I like
since I sometimes forget to tag the threads and end up losing the ones I've
posted in.

Well, I need to clean the kitchen before bedtime. Have a Happy Easter,
what's left of it for you. It has yet to arrive here. Easter dinner at my
sister's house with all of her grandchildren. It is so noisy there, even
though they aren't trying to be. Gosh, I hope she doesn't make one of her
chocolate pies. I don't know what she does, but ewwww. I smile and take a
bite of it, but it just kind of goes down with a sickening thud.
~Nins~
2004-04-11 04:23:00 UTC
Permalink
<re-added group> Changed my mind since Edge might be posting from canb...??

|| Edge wrote:
|||| "~Nins~" <***@mchsi.com> wrote in message
|||| news:Uw%dc.8557$***@attbi_s52...
|||||
||||| I'm visiting an open and unmoderated NG where I thought there were
||||| nice people, and still think it.
||||
|||| As being different from hanging out with your own sort?
||
|| My "own sort"? LoL, actually I do hang out with my "own sort", and
|| find them just as nice, and some not so nice, same as here.
|| [In the forest be a clearing where trueness of color and truth
|| dwell.]
||
|||| Actually, I disagree .. the issue relates to a lot of factors
|||| including how the government deals with it .. this is vastly
|||| different between the 2 countries.
||
|| Perhaps, matter of opinion really.
||
|||| How long did it take to realise that AUS = AUSTRALIA and not
|||| AUSTIN/TEXASS
||
|| As mentioned, I have my reason(s) of which I posted in the past in
|| another group, not my problem if you didn't see it. Are you so
|| prejudiced against Americans that you can't handle a visit from a
|| petite American? Gosh, I didn't realize I was such an intimidating
|| figure. It must be the new perm.
||
|||| I'm visiting the group because people insist in cross posting ...
|||| that can't be your excuse
||
|| Nope, it isn't. As far as the canb.general group in this thread, my
|| newsserver doesn't carry it, so I'll remove it from this one.
||
|||| From time to time if I have a valid reason or feel the need to set
|||| the ferals off....
||
|| Never to just visit or to learn more about others abroad? Those are
|| two of my reasons, another reason is related to my son.
||
|||| Because many of your countrymen have the IQ of a gnat.
||
|| You don't know that. What exactly is the IQ of a gnat?
||
|||| I've found that most Merkins who drift into our groups are just
|||| itching for a fight with anyone who isn't 100% up their arses.....
||
|| Cute little names you have for us. I just like to express my
|| opinion and communicate with others, if you choose to see it as
|| picking a fight, well I can't control how you see it. I must admit
|| I find it amusing the differences in language, definitions,
|| spelling, such as: "arse" is ass here; "merkin" and "seppo" IIRC are
|| labels there for Americans ("yank" I can understand, yank--yankee)
|| and Australians are Aussies here or just Australians; and, root has
|| one meaning of cheering here whereas it has a completely different
|| meaning there, yet we are sometimes slammed for our usage of the
|| English language. I don't necessarily see the differences as a bad
|| thing, different places, different people, and we all condemn each
|| other at one time or another, don't we? ;) I have opinions you don't
|| exactly like, should you expect me to not post them where I visit,
|| or to not visit at all? Should I expect you not to express the
|| opinions you have in response to mine? No, to both questions.
||
|||| Exactly my point. You appear to have no idea of how our system
|||| works and how the money is distributed, and yet you are commenting.
|||| Your comments are as valid as my comments on the monetary
|||| distribution of your country would be .. Perhaps you ought to
|||| start your conversation on finding out about our system BEFORE you
|||| comment upon it? I'm sure many here could enlighten you.
||
|| Oh come on now, your government does not allocate money to certain
|| programs that might not necessarily be essential? What government
|| doesn't? I was commenting on the main issue as I saw it, and that
|| is the homeless problem that is worldwide. As far as any comments
|| about your government take them and apply as they may or may not
|| apply, whichever. Do you know all there is to know about my
|| government? I'll tell you one thing about the spending of my
|| government that I don't necessarily like, although it may be trivial
|| to some, is the amount of money they spend on office furniture and
|| supplies when they could get the same items (paper, pencils, etc)
|| for a fraction of the cost elsewhere. It's all about padding the
|| pockets.
||
|||| I'd also be just a tad reluctant to believe everything you read in
|||| the press. After all, your countries "freedom of the press" rates
|||| even lower than ours!
||
|| I learned years ago that what is put out by the media is sometimes,
|| if not most of the time, for ratings essentially. I read from
|| different sources, and one way I've found to get a reasonable idea
|| of the thinking of people from other places, is to visit and
|| sometimes engage them. I hold no animosity for any of you, but I
|| may disagree with you from time to time. If you don't like it,
|| well, sorry you feel that way. I'll still visit and post wherever.
|| One thing I like about the aus.politics group is the amount of posts
|| in comparison to the us.politics group seems to be less, which I
|| like since I sometimes forget to tag the threads and end up losing
|| the ones I've posted in.
||
|| Well, I need to clean the kitchen before bedtime. Have a Happy
|| Easter, what's left of it for you. It has yet to arrive here.
|| Easter dinner at my sister's house with all of her grandchildren.
|| It is so noisy there, even though they aren't trying to be. Gosh, I
|| hope she doesn't make one of her chocolate pies. I don't know what
|| she does, but ewwww. I smile and take a bite of it, but it just
|| kind of goes down with a sickening thud.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
~Nins~ http://www.churchbulletin.com
In the forest be a clearing where trueness of color and truth dwell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Edge
2004-04-11 05:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
<re-added group> Changed my mind since Edge might be posting from canb...??
Yes .. I find weeding through the wankers in aus.politics to find the real
stuff quite tiresome.
Post by ~Nins~
|| My "own sort"? LoL, actually I do hang out with my "own sort", and
|| find them just as nice, and some not so nice, same as here.
Sometimes it is best to stick with ones own sort :o)
Post by ~Nins~
|| Perhaps, matter of opinion really.
Actually it's a matter of fact. You see (for instance), can you recognise a
society that offers social security payments to all without employment and
accommodation in the form of emergency housing? Because these "homeless"
are entitled to both here .. the "homeless" are out on the streets by
choice (either direct or indirect). Unlike some countries, the welfare
system here is quite advanced, some may suggest to far so ...
Post by ~Nins~
|| As mentioned, I have my reason(s) of which I posted in the past in
|| another group, not my problem if you didn't see it.
My care factor on your reasons sits at zero ... not sure why you feel the
need to harp on about it. What is curious however is that you have felt the
need in the past to justify your inclusion in some groups. Interesting.
Post by ~Nins~
Are you so
|| prejudiced against Americans that you can't handle a visit from a
|| petite American?
I would just wish for one day when there wasn't some Merkin flappin their
gums about some crap or other .. most of which they know nothing about.
Your ignorance on this subject (relating to my country) is evident, you
posted opinion rather than seeking further information which I suspect would
generally be the first move when entering a discussion about something you
know little about.
Post by ~Nins~
Gosh, I didn't realize I was such an intimidating
|| figure. It must be the new perm.
Actually, intimidation would result in people not responding. Thus a
response would hardly indicate intimidation now would it? I find perms
look OK on some, and not so good on others .. but the main issue with a
perm would be whether YOU like it .. what I, or others, think is hardly
relevant now is it?
Post by ~Nins~
|| Nope, it isn't. As far as the canb.general group in this thread, my
|| newsserver doesn't carry it, so I'll remove it from this one.
You could feel free to drop the canb.general. As you may have gathered by
now, Australia also has it's ignorant gits who seem to think (for some
reason I can't understand) that those who live in Canberra give a flying
fuck about politics. Most of us don't .. and those of us who do hang out in
aus.politics. Certainly this thread started about some crap or other that
was posted in our local paper .. but again, that indicates an assumption
that we read that paper, which I for one dont.
Post by ~Nins~
|| Never to just visit or to learn more about others abroad? Those are
|| two of my reasons, another reason is related to my son.
Never just to visit .. but "learning more about others abroad" does fall
into the category stated. *IF* I ever feel the desire for a future visit to
the YooNightTed States then i'll seek further information, but as it falls
well down the list of must sees (below NZ/Europe and Canada) it will be a
few years before considering it ... OshKosh is appealing, but Wanaka,
Duxford and Farnborough appeal more right now.
Post by ~Nins~
|| You don't know that. What exactly is the IQ of a gnat?
I do know that ... and it's quite low ... Seems a recent survey of
Americans found that about 5% of them couldn't recognise their own country
in a multiple choice (4) countries marked on a map of the world ... a
lot more of them cannot recognise a world outside their own borders ... many
we have seen in these groups can't comprehend that AUS might mean something
other than Austin/TexASS. You only need to read their *performances* on the
net to realise that they just aren't that clever.
Post by ~Nins~
|| Cute little names you have for us.
It's not *our* name, it's in the dictionary (the American dictionary).
Post by ~Nins~
I just like to express my
|| opinion and communicate with others, if you choose to see it as
|| picking a fight, well I can't control how you see it.
I didn't see it like that .. I felt that perhaps you ought to get a bit more
in touch with our country before expressing an opinion .. informed opinions
are more welcome than uninformed (although to be fair .. all of us do
express uninformed opinions from time to time).
Post by ~Nins~
I must admit
|| I find it amusing the differences in language, definitions,
|| spelling, such as: "arse" is ass here; "merkin" and "seppo" IIRC are
|| labels there for Americans ("yank" I can understand, yank--yankee)
Yank isn't a term used much here ... to close to wank I suspect.
Post by ~Nins~
|| and Australians are Aussies here or just Australians;
pronounced Aww Zees... (what the?)
Post by ~Nins~
and, root has
|| one meaning of cheering here whereas it has a completely different
|| meaning there,
Ah .. you didn't miss it at all ... rooting/bagging .. .always fun when
chatting to foreigners.
Post by ~Nins~
yet we are sometimes slammed for our usage of the
|| English language. I don't necessarily see the differences as a bad
|| thing, different places, different people, and we all condemn each
|| other at one time or another, don't we? ;)
Over language? Hardly.
Post by ~Nins~
I have opinions you don't
|| exactly like, should you expect me to not post them where I visit,
|| or to not visit at all? Should I expect you not to express the
|| opinions you have in response to mine? No, to both questions.
Asked & answered.
Post by ~Nins~
|| Oh come on now, your government does not allocate money to certain
|| programs that might not necessarily be essential?
Sure it does (as do them all) .. it also GUARANTEES Social Security payments
(fortnightly) to those without a job or whose incomes are low .. and
allocates housing to those people as well.
Post by ~Nins~
What government
|| doesn't? I was commenting on the main issue as I saw it, and that
|| is the homeless problem that is worldwide.
In a society where there is money for all, homelessness is a different issue
.. homelessness is a symptom of something else .. maybe an mental illness,
too much pride or even in some instances (as I suspect in one of the cases
mentioned in the article) arrogance and a desire to get ones own way
regardless. I'm wondering where we can pull the money from to help people
who won't help themselves .. Politicians salaries spring to mind, but i'm
sure that's never going to happen. Of course, we could always remove our
support of Iraq .. but then, that would screw over the *major chuckle* free
trade agreement wouldn't it? Seems that some other country has us pretty
much by the *short and curlies* (or merkin) so to speak.
Post by ~Nins~
As far as any comments
|| about your government take them and apply as they may or may not
|| apply, whichever. Do you know all there is to know about my
|| government?
Nope, can't say it's a government that I have any respect for at all ..
strange system ... sucks like a hoover ..... although I hope bubby Bush
gets his "ass" kicked in the election .. but then I think our system (for
all it's faults and it has many) is a far better system than the American
one. Who would consider voting in someone based on their money? or
"popularity" rather than politcial background and policies? Shit .. Jamie
Drury for next Prime Minister!!!!!! :o)
Post by ~Nins~
I'll tell you one thing about the spending of my
|| government that I don't necessarily like, although it may be trivial
|| to some, is the amount of money they spend on office furniture and
|| supplies when they could get the same items (paper, pencils, etc)
|| for a fraction of the cost elsewhere. It's all about padding the
|| pockets.
I have opinions about your government and it's spending ..... but it's not
part of the discussion here. Some systems are better set up for fraud than
others ...
Post by ~Nins~
|| Well, I need to clean the kitchen before bedtime.
Removing the shoes first? :o)
Post by ~Nins~
|| It is so noisy there, even though they aren't trying to be. Gosh, I
|| hope she doesn't make one of her chocolate pies. I don't know what
|| she does, but ewwww. I smile and take a bite of it, but it just
|| kind of goes down with a sickening thud.
We (at my house) don't celebrate easter as such ... stuff in a few hot
cross buns and some chocolate ...
~Nins~
2004-04-11 07:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Edge wrote:
|| Yes .. I find weeding through the wankers in aus.politics to find
|| the real stuff quite tiresome.

Your choice.

|| Sometimes it is best to stick with ones own sort :o)

Sometimes it is best to do that *and* visit others.

|| Actually it's a matter of fact. You see (for instance), can you
|| recognise a society that offers social security payments to all
|| without employment and accommodation in the form of emergency
|| housing? Because these "homeless" are entitled to both here ..
|| the "homeless" are out on the streets by choice (either direct or
|| indirect). Unlike some countries, the welfare system here is quite
|| advanced, some may suggest to far so ...

So, none of the homeless here receive any assistance? It isn't always a
choice, sometimes what they receive isn't enough to pay rent, utilities,
food, and they are left without a choice.

|| My care factor on your reasons sits at zero ... not sure why you
|| feel the need to harp on about it. What is curious however is that
|| you have felt the need in the past to justify your inclusion in some
|| groups. Interesting.

I don't expect you to care, nor do I care whether you like my presence here
or not. You brought in the issue about my posting here, and I responded.

|| I would just wish for one day when there wasn't some Merkin flappin
|| their gums about some crap or other .. most of which they know
|| nothing about. Your ignorance on this subject (relating to my
|| country) is evident, you posted opinion rather than seeking further
|| information which I suspect would generally be the first move when
|| entering a discussion about something you know little about.

And there's never any ignorance displayed when topics about the USA and its
President are posted here?

|| Actually, intimidation would result in people not responding. Thus a
|| response would hardly indicate intimidation now would it? I find
|| perms look OK on some, and not so good on others .. but the main
|| issue with a perm would be whether YOU like it .. what I, or
|| others, think is hardly relevant now is it?

It's their choice whether to respond or not. Again, you brought in the
issue about my being here. It's either you feel intimidated or it's just
prejudice seeping out.

|| started about some crap or other that was posted in our local paper
|| .. but again, that indicates an assumption that we read that paper,
|| which I for one dont.

Why not? What could it hurt?

|| can't comprehend that AUS might mean something other than
|| Austin/TexASS. You only need to read their *performances* on the
|| net to realise that they just aren't that clever.

Who said I didn't comprehend what the AUS stood for? That's your
assumption.

|| I didn't see it like that .. I felt that perhaps you ought to get a
|| bit more in touch with our country before expressing an opinion ..
|| informed opinions are more welcome than uninformed (although to be
|| fair .. all of us do express uninformed opinions from time to time).

You didn't? "and to hang out in Australian newsgroups and comment abuot
Australian issues
when you're not Australian is perdy wrong too" If I were to post to you as
you have been posting to me, you know those sly little jabs like the
Austin/TexASS one, then I would say you need to use your spell-checker, but
I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings, so I wouldn't post that to you. ;)

|| Yank isn't a term used much here ... to close to wank I suspect.

Yank is a term I've seen used a number of times in the aus groups. Yank
isn't a bad term as far as I see it, the other terms used are lacking, in my
opinion.

|| pronounced Aww Zees... (what the?)

I don't pronounce it like that. It's a lot better than how we are sometimes
referred.

|| In a society where there is money for all, homelessness is a
|| different issue .. homelessness is a symptom of something else ..
|| maybe an mental illness, too much pride or even in some instances
|| (as I suspect in one of the cases mentioned in the article)
|| arrogance and a desire to get ones own way regardless. I'm
|| wondering where we can pull the money from to help people who won't
|| help themselves ..

Who won't or can't? Some won't, some can't.

|| country has us pretty much by the *short and curlies* (or merkin) so
|| to speak.

Ticks you off, doesn't it? It might turn out to be a good thing. But,
wait, you wouldn't be open to that if you are not open to one American
visiting in an Australian NG. Never mind.

|| Nope, can't say it's a government that I have any respect for at
|| all .. strange system ... sucks like a hoover ..... although I
|| hope bubby Bush gets his "ass" kicked in the election .. but then I

He won't.

|| Removing the shoes first? :o)

Well, it's late, and if I'm as ignorant as you think I am, perhaps you
should clarify that one? Btw, I remove my shoes as soon I come in the front
door, that is when I wear shoes. You know us hillbilly Yanks and how we
love to go barefoot, sit out on the porch, and drink our moonshine. ;)

|| We (at my house) don't celebrate easter as such ... stuff in a few
|| hot cross buns and some chocolate ...

To each their own, different strokes for different folks.

Now that I am finally getting sleepy....off to bed. Thanks for the
interesting spar. ;) As Arnie said in the Terminator, "I'll be back".
Toodles, until next time, been fun.
Edge
2004-04-11 09:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
Your choice.
Until some tosser decides to cross post their garbage of course.
Post by ~Nins~
Sometimes it is best to do that *and* visit others.
Yes, if there is something worth saying ...
Post by ~Nins~
So, none of the homeless here receive any assistance?
Ah you see you are just here for an argument ... for I never said (nor
inferred) that.
Post by ~Nins~
It isn't always a
choice, sometimes what they receive isn't enough to pay rent, utilities,
food, and they are left without a choice.
I suggest you re-read what I wrote ... Maybe where you are the choices are
affected by those factors .. here the government supplies housing or rent
assistance to those who's salary levels are such that they struggle to pay
those items. I remember saying that already .... are you ignoring the
facts or just not picking up on them?
Post by ~Nins~
I don't expect you to care, nor do I care whether you like my presence here
or not. You brought in the issue about my posting here, and I responded.
and responded, and responded :o)
Post by ~Nins~
And there's never any ignorance displayed when topics about the USA and its
President are posted here?
Again .. you're introducing irrelevant issues. Care to stick to the subject
under discussion? It should be noted however, that it feels quite natural
to see the terms ignorance and President used in the same sentence.
Post by ~Nins~
It's their choice whether to respond or not. Again, you brought in the
issue about my being here. It's either you feel intimidated or it's just
prejudice seeping out.
Is it prejudice to judge someone on their behaviour? Or is it prejudice to
believe your knowledge superiour to someone on a particular issue? Or are
you just playing the prejudice card in ignorance as so many others do?
Post by ~Nins~
Why not? What could it hurt?
To read the paper? I'd rather read something that has more substance (and
isn't quite so physically large)
Post by ~Nins~
Who said I didn't comprehend what the AUS stood for? That's your
assumption.
Actually, your assumption again .. we see enough of your countrymen in our
aus groups to know that many of them have a real problem with the
aus/australia issue. Much the same way we see Canadians who assume that
canb stands for Canada - New Brunswick ..
Post by ~Nins~
You didn't? "and to hang out in Australian newsgroups and comment abuot
Australian issues
when you're not Australian is perdy wrong too"
Yes .. based upon the fact that your comments on our housing system
continues to lack accuracy even after having it pointed out to you ....
Post by ~Nins~
If I were to post to you as
you have been posting to me, you know those sly little jabs like the
Austin/TexASS one, then I would say you need to use your spell-checker, but
I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings, so I wouldn't post that to you. ;)
TexASS was borrowed from a Merkin group ... don't like it .. take it up with
them.
Post by ~Nins~
|| Yank isn't a term used much here ... to close to wank I suspect.
Yank is a term I've seen used a number of times in the aus groups. Yank
isn't a bad term as far as I see it, the other terms used are lacking, in my
opinion.
Not by me ... I have enough trouble listening to the term "yankee doodle
dandy" without laughing my ASS off... What are the other terms lacking
exactly? (noteing of course that you raised the term seppo whereas I chose
to use a term that is nothing more than an abbreviation as found in the
american dictionary).
Post by ~Nins~
|| pronounced Aww Zees... (what the?)
I don't pronounce it like that. It's a lot better than how we are sometimes
referred.
When you say "we" are you referring to your country? I'm sure you've been
called much worse and will continue to be so ... We used to use the
terms in a friendly way, but that's changed a fair bit over the past few
years .. unfortunately the behaviour of some of your countrymen opens you up
to all sorts of attacks ... you see, some people believe that "might is righ
t" whereas others just moon those who believe that.
Post by ~Nins~
Who won't or can't? Some won't, some can't.
Exactly.
Post by ~Nins~
Ticks you off, doesn't it?
I have always despised bullies.
Post by ~Nins~
It might turn out to be a good thing.
Me being ticked off? It's actually irrelevant to you because I don't make
a habit of flying planes into buildings ..
Post by ~Nins~
He won't.
Well that will be a great pity for the rest of the world.....
Post by ~Nins~
Well, it's late, and if I'm as ignorant as you think I am, perhaps you
should clarify that one? Btw, I remove my shoes as soon I come in the front
door, that is when I wear shoes. You know us hillbilly Yanks and how we
love to go barefoot, sit out on the porch, and drink our moonshine. ;)
:o)
Post by ~Nins~
To each their own, different strokes for different folks.
Yes. But I don't have to face the chocolate pie .. although it does appear
to be a tragedy that someone can screw up something that sounds so good ....
Post by ~Nins~
Now that I am finally getting sleepy....off to bed. Thanks for the
interesting spar. ;) As Arnie said in the Terminator, "I'll be back".
Toodles, until next time, been fun.
spar? You haven't hung out here long enough if you think this is a "spar"
.....
ausstu
2004-04-10 23:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
|| Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
|| What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
|| topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
<snipped because the comments are sickening>
I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find yourself
in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they got
there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I'm
not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you should
extend a helping hand in some way. There may be some of those interviewed
who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in turning
the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had been at
the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the beginning,
and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental duties
to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.
The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some people
who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off! :(
With all the social welfare that exist in this country there is no
excuse for someone being homeless unless they ar totally
irresponsible. I pray that one day you will get a brain and realise
that you don't help irresponsible people by giving them more handouts.
Some people need to learn the hard way in order to change their
behaviour.
William J. Wolfe
2004-04-10 23:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
I feel sorry for you. You haven't a clue. I pray you never find yourself
in the situation these people are in, and does it really matter how they got
there? Keyword: compassion. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I'm
not saying hand it on a platter to them, but there are times when you should
extend a helping hand in some way. There may be some of those interviewed
who would want to work given someone took the time to guide them, or to
provide them an opportunity. A show of caring can go a long way in turning
the course of another's life. As far as that 17 year-old, if he had been at
the refuge for 13 months, then he was probably 15 or 16 at the beginning,
and his parents should be thoroughly ashamed for neglecting parental duties
to their son, no matter if he was the cause of whatever. Tough love
bullcrap where you kick your children out, that's all it is, crap.
The same goes on here in the USA, people who are desparate, and some people
who respond to that desparation with coldness. It just pi--es me off! :(
Before you seppos tell the rest of the world how to live, clean up
your own stinking mess first.
~Nins~
2004-04-11 00:25:51 UTC
Permalink
William J. Wolfe wrote:
|| Before you seppos tell the rest of the world how to live, clean up
|| your own stinking mess first.

My point exactly was it is a world problem. And despite how many social
programs you might have, sometimes homelessness still occurs. Sometimes
they don't take advantage of those programs, for whatever reasons, but if we
when we can reach out and guide them to what is available, what's wrong with
that, and how is that giving them a handout? You are walking along a
street, eating a sandwich, you see someone who is obviously homeless and not
eaten for a long time, do you keep eating your sandwich and walk past the
person, or do you offer what is left? It isn't even a full sandwich. You
would prefer to ignore the hunger of another human being when you could've
provided not even a full sandwich? If you had spent all the money you had
on that sandwich and you would not have anything else to eat for awhile,
then no, charity begins at home, but if it's extra to you, why not?

Man, you know we Americans certainly have many faults, and there's some of
us who feel as has been expressed here, but I think you would find that most
any American, hopefully, given the latter above scenario would not walk
past that person without giving a second thought or giving what is left as
long as what is left is extra. I agree there should be prudence and
moderation in all things, but I'm one of those who is not too fond of this
'tough love' concept, and feel it could do more damage than good in the end,
at least for some.
Andy
2004-04-11 00:46:20 UTC
Permalink
"~Nins~" <***@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:jg0ec.6382$***@attbi_s54...
| William J. Wolfe wrote:
| || Before you seppos tell the rest of the world how to live, clean up
| || your own stinking mess first.
|
| My point exactly was it is a world problem. And despite how many social
| programs you might have, sometimes homelessness still occurs. Sometimes
| they don't take advantage of those programs, for whatever reasons, but if
we
| when we can reach out and guide them to

Drugs, petrol, glue.maybe they will overdose?



what is available, what's wrong with
| that, and how is that giving them a handout? You are walking along a
| street, eating a sandwich, you see someone who is obviously homeless and
not
| eaten for a long time, do you keep eating your sandwich and walk past the
| person, or do you offer what is left?


Its their choice to be poor.


It isn't even a full sandwich. You
| would prefer to ignore the hunger of another human being when you could've
| provided not even a full sandwich?


Tell it to the Rwandans

If you had spent all the money you had
| on that sandwich and you would not have anything else to eat for awhile,
| then no, charity begins at home,


Thats where it stays.



but if it's extra to you, why not?
|
| Man, you know we Americans certainly have many faults,

absolutely!

and there's some of
| us who feel as has been expressed here, but I think you would find that
most
| any American, hopefully, given the latter above scenario would not walk
| past that person


BULL-A-SHITTTTTT! I have visited your cities and thats exactly what
happens.


without giving a second thought or giving what is left as
| long as what is left is extra. I agree there should be prudence and
| moderation in all things, but I'm one of those who is not too fond of this
| 'tough love' concept, and feel it could do more damage than good in the
end,
| at least for some.
|


Just a few dregs.
Ben Perry
2004-04-11 22:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ~Nins~
|| Canberra Times 8 April printed another tear jerker on homelessness.
|| What is the point of this garbage does the editor set it as an essay
|| topic for every new reporter just out of journalism school?
<snipped because the comments are sickening>
<snip>

In what way? Exactly which of the facts he presented do you claim are
wrong? Exactly which of the opinions he expressed do you disagree with
and why? You seem to be concerned more with form than with substance.
Ryan
2004-04-10 05:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garth Foster
readers would appreciate a more forthright approach by
journalists writing about the homeless
I agree with this. I think we lack journalistic integrity in all areas of
public interest.

Whilst I personally would advocate a little more compassion than you do, I
can see the cause of your frustration.
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