Discussion:
Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Kepler and Galileo - the founders of modern cosmology - All Theists
(too old to reply)
fasgnadh
2011-04-16 06:01:05 UTC
Permalink
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.

Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."

The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.

Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]

When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
our place in the universe:


Nicolaus Copernicus

"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."

Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.

Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..

His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"

Tyge Ottesen Brahe

"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."


Johannes Kepler

"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."

"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."

This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.

Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.



The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.

B^]

Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;

"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.

Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"


So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?


It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.

Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.

That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]

with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D


Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..

"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
--


---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

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Sfinx
2011-04-16 11:07:08 UTC
Permalink
And your beloved prophet mohammed (piss be upon him) was a paedophile.
DonH
2011-04-16 18:27:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and Kepler,
who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging to
the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death in
1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and the
defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a landmark
in the history of science that is often referred to as the Copernican
Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for his
eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers, based
on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of Copernican
Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations for Isaac
Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his work,
motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had created the
world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible through the
natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain.
He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the opposition.
They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw
---------
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
# It was hard not to be theist in the past, as it was an integral part of
society.
That the scientists, natural philosophers, alchemists, or astrologers,
etc, were also "religious" was more due to their cultural environment than
anything else - and the fact that their research was of the natural world,
and not of theological sources.
That is, their results had religion more as correlation than causation,
and a departmentalising of the human mind, left it that way.
Today, you'd probably find most scientists are atheistic, agnostic, or
otherwise non-theistic, for the same reason. Our present society (except in
Islamic States) is largely pagan, hedonistic, secular, and sceptical. Even
Australia's PM is atheist, as are many politicians. Only a minor proportion
of the population attend church regularly.
As for the Big Bang Theory, that does, indeed, fit in neatly with
Creation - but poses the same questions, as to what existed before, and what
comes after.
Taken overall, traditional religions are pre-scientific guesses as to
origin of the cosmos, and our place in it. God is now the god of the gaps
(missing links).
Believe in a "God" if you wish, but when you pray don't expect to hear an
answer.
fasgnadh
2011-04-17 22:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sfinx
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
And your beloved prophet mohammed
This thread is not about Mohammed, or Islam, but concerns the history
of SCIENCE, something you hate-filled bigots clearly don't understand,
and are unlikely to, even if you develop opposable thumbs.

What the evidence shows is that far from being an obstacle to scientific
thought, belief that the universe had meaning led people to discover
what that meaning was, and that theists dominate the history of new ideas.

After all, atheists, the lowest rung of non-believers, only have ONE
idea between them!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAA

And in Stinx's case it is the classic hate filled prejudice whic
led to atheist regimes that killed over 70,000,000 people in just seven
decades.

Doubt is fine, disbelief is fine, but Militant Atheism, along with
Nazism, Racism, uber-Nationalism, Fascism, Colonialism, Imperialism,
Communism, has been the scourge of mankind.
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
2011-04-17 23:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
Mate, over the years I have known you to be a good bloke at heart
Thanks sport, I wish I could say the same about Lenin, Mao, Stalin
Pol Pot and all the atheist leaders of atheist states in history.


It is simply FUCKED UP!

Face it.
but you just gotta give up this shit about god
That's what all the atheist regimes said, and terrorised,
tortured and killed over 70,000,000 trying to make people
give up belief in God.


It didn't work.

It is the most powerful meme in the universe.

Religion has built all the great and enduring civilisations,
and it has evolved and provided fresh inspiration throughout
time, so that it's most recent achievement, the free, open,
tolerant, progressive, prosperous, educated, scientifically
powerful, technologically advanced secular democratic states
were all built by majority religious societies.

Atheism doesn't work.
/gods/godess/godesses/pink unicorns/etc.
Atheists are the only people I know interested in pink unicorns
and flying spaghetti monsters...

They are the infants in the theological conversation,
which is why hardly anyone listens to them.
We know waaaayyyy too much for our own good right now
So you don't believe ever expanding human knowledge is a good thing.

Why didn't you say up front that you object to the sort enlightenment
that these theist scientists bring, instead of rabbiting on pointlessly
and irrelevantly about pink unicorns?
and crap like religion is just secondary
YOu see that is just plain wrong on TWO counts;

1. you beg the question with derogatory language, already
indicating we are not going to get a rational discourse,
merely the outcome of your prejudices and

2. Religion, historically and in the contemporary world is not
secondary. More people on the planet believe in God than don't,
and those populations are critical to solving the worlds problems.

Dialogue with them is essential, not excluding whole
populations because they don't think like you, as EVERY atheist
regime did.
when there are heaps of other things to worry about.
Take away the theist scientists, the religious hospitals and schools
and charities and you not only have a lot MORE problems to think about,
but you wouldn't have left primitive barbarism.

Have a read through the agenda of the Parliaments of World Religion,
and tell me which political parties have such a wide social agenda..
the First International Women's Rights conference in Chicago in 1848
and WAKE UP!

# From: fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion.christian,
# alt.religion.Islam,uk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats,
# alt.religion,alt.agnosticism,aus.politics
# Subject: Parliament of the World's Religions - 2009 Melbourne,
Australia
# Message-ID: <gfPQl.12252$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:33:16 GMT
#
# Parliament of the World's Religions
# December 3-9, 2009 Melbourne, Australia
#
# The Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions invites
# all people of faith, spirit and goodwill to encounter
# the vast and rich diversity of the world's religious
# and spiritual traditions, and to take part in over 500 events
# including keynote addresses, seminars, conferences, dialogues,
# performances, concerts and exhibitions. The 2009 Parliament
# will bring together more than 8,000 people from across the world,
# including renowned spiritual, religious and political leaders.
#
#
# "The theme of the 2009 Parliament underscores the opportunity for
# religious and spiritual communites and all people to act on
# environmental concerns and take responsibility for cultivating
# awareness of our global interconnectedness.
# Key topics of global concern will be
# addressed from religious and spiritual perspectives. These include:
#
# * Healing the Earth with Care and Concern
# * Reconciling with Indigenous Peoples
# * Overcoming Poverty in a Patriarchal World
# * Securing Food and Water for all People
# * Building Peace in the Pursuit of Justice
# * Creating Social Cohesion in Village and City
# * Sharing Wisdom in the Search for Inner Peace
#
# http://www.parliamentofreligions2009.org/email/email1.htm

Did the First International ATHEIST convention address ANY
of those issues? I know the answer but YOU clearly don't! B^p


The First Women's Rights conference was held in the Wesleyan Church,
Seneca Falls, 1848

http://www.nps.gov/wori/historyculture/the-first-womens-rights-conven...

Where were the atheist liars and propagandists when it mattered?

"QUAKER INFLUENCE ON THE SENECA FALLS CONVENTION
The women's rights movement was rooted in the fertile
ground of central New York. This area was known for
sweeping reform, which burned across the landscape
through village, town, and city like a prairie on fire.
Much of this reform was due to the numerous members of
the Society of Friends, Quakers, who made their homes here.
A progressive branch of Quakers lived in and around Waterloo,
New York. At a time in America when women had virtually
no rights, these Quakers provided model relationships
where men and women worked and lived in equality."

http://www.nps.gov/wori/historyculture/quaker-influence.htm

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men
and women are created equal; that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain inalienable rights..."
- Cited in the Declaration of the Conference.

William Lloyd Garrison wrote to Thomas M'Clintock, one of the
32 Men for Women's Rights, largely Quakers, who signed the
Conference declaration

"You have a soul, capable of Embracing the largest idea
of humanity. …I regard you as one of those whose country
is not America, Europe, Asia, or Africa, but the world;
and whose countrymen are all the rational creatures of God,…
whether their complexion be white, black, red, or any other
color…. When this spirit shall universally prevail among
men there shall be no more wares, no more slavery,
no more injustice."

God's voice was a clarion call.. where were the atheists?
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Geoff Lock
2011-04-18 03:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Mate, over the years I have known you to be a good bloke at heart
Thanks sport, I wish I could say the same about Lenin, Mao, Stalin
Pol Pot and all the atheist leaders of atheist states in history.
Likewise with theist leaders of theist states, It cuts both ways, buddy.

Anyway, given your past form, I know that you can carry on and on and on
with the discussion :) I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. :)
You'll find plenty of other takers on Usenet :)
fasgnadh
2011-04-18 08:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Lock
Post by fasgnadh
Mate, over the years I have known you to be a good bloke at heart
Thanks sport, I wish I could say the same about Lenin, Mao, Stalin
Pol Pot and all the atheist leaders of atheist states in history.
Likewise with theist leaders of theist states, It cuts both ways, buddy.
You think Obama is as bad as Pol Pot?

Best you quit now while you are behind.
Post by Geoff Lock
Anyway, given your past form, I know that you can carry on and on and on
with the discussion :) I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. :)
You'll find plenty of other takers on Usenet :)
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Geoff Lock
2011-04-18 16:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Geoff Lock
Post by fasgnadh
Mate, over the years I have known you to be a good bloke at heart
Thanks sport, I wish I could say the same about Lenin, Mao, Stalin
Pol Pot and all the atheist leaders of atheist states in history.
Likewise with theist leaders of theist states, It cuts both ways, buddy.
You think Obama is as bad as Pol Pot?
Ever heard of a country called Iran? Ever heard of the Taliban in
Afghanistan? Look at what is happening in Pakistan today. Look up
Ahmedabad in India and read for yourself what is happening there NOW.

The last time I spoke to my Serbian and Croatian friends, they didn't
seem to enamored with each other, although perversely the Eurovision
Song Contest seems to have done more towards reconciling Serbs and
Croats than all the politicking and all the sermons ever preached - go
figure! :)

Note that I quote the theists of today. Never mind those of yesteryear -
one could really go to town on them if one was so inclined!
Post by fasgnadh
Best you quit now while you are behind.
You are right - I should stop this discussion but you suckered me into
responding when I had already quitted :)
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Geoff Lock
Anyway, given your past form, I know that you can carry on and on and on
with the discussion :) I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. :)
You'll find plenty of other takers on Usenet :)
I told you, you would carry on and on and on :)

Look, like I said, I know you have a good heart and you will take a
strong stand on things you believe it. That's well and good.

I responded only out of respect for you as a good person.

Just don't forget that not all theists are good people and not all
atheists are bad people.

fasgnadh
2011-04-18 00:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
True,
...
quid pro quo
Your point?
You seem to have snipped it and then asked what it is.. you moron:

<unsnip so that the atheist morons can READ, if not GET, the point>
Post by fasgnadh
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Budikka666
2011-04-18 00:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?

Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?

Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe and how to practice that belief. Got it now
faltnads?

Budikka
HD
2011-04-18 03:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the existence
of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.


Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
Oy rool out a carbon tax
2011-04-18 08:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the
existence of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
The kind that does not play dice. And that kind of thinking made one of
the very best get things VERY wrong.
Post by HD
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.
Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
HD
2011-04-18 09:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the
existence of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
The kind that does not play dice. And that kind of thinking made one of
the very best get things VERY wrong.
What stupid comment is that?
Don't you read what you reply too?
The poster told us that Catholics, Lutheran and Baptists are at odds in what
kind of God they believe when in fact they believe in the same God.
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.
Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
Oy rool out a carbon tax
2011-04-18 10:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the
existence of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
The kind that does not play dice. And that kind of thinking made one of
the very best get things VERY wrong.
What stupid comment is that?
An aside... clearly too subtle for your understanding. Back to your hail
Marys. You've got a lot of catching up to do. Off you go...
Post by HD
Don't you read what you reply too?
The poster told us that Catholics, Lutheran and Baptists are at odds in
what kind of God they believe when in fact they believe in the same God.
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.
Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
HD
2011-04-18 11:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the
existence of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
The kind that does not play dice. And that kind of thinking made one of
the very best get things VERY wrong.
What stupid comment is that?
An aside... clearly too subtle for your understanding. Back to your hail
Marys. You've got a lot of catching up to do. Off you go.>
And another stupid comment to cover up for the first stupid comment.
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Don't you read what you reply too?
The poster told us that Catholics, Lutheran and Baptists are at odds in
what kind of God they believe when in fact they believe in the same God.
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.
Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
Oy rool out a carbon tax
2011-04-18 11:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories - every last one of them used science. Got
it now faltnads?
But as brilliant scientists with inquiring minds they accepted the
existence of God.
Got that?
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work. Got it now, flatnads?
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe
The kind of God?
The kind that does not play dice. And that kind of thinking made one of
the very best get things VERY wrong.
What stupid comment is that?
An aside... clearly too subtle for your understanding. Back to your hail
Marys. You've got a lot of catching up to do. Off you go.>
And another stupid comment to cover up for the first stupid comment.
And more confirmation that you didn't get it. Now, back to the
confessional - I've booked you in for a double session. Off you go.
Post by HD
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Don't you read what you reply too?
The poster told us that Catholics, Lutheran and Baptists are at odds in
what kind of God they believe when in fact they believe in the same God.
Post by Oy rool out a carbon tax
Post by HD
Dear Lord, are you ignorant about Christianity.
Got it now
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Budikka
Who didn't get it.
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
--
"If we cut emissions today, global temperatures are not likely to drop
for about a thousand years. "
-- Tim (it ain't a gonna rain no more) Flannery
- Australian Climate Commissar
fasgnadh
2011-04-18 01:12:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
True, and the church denied and banned the thoughts and ideas of those
men as well.
That's just not true.
Jonathan, they are just not interested in the truth,
they are atheists.

Of course it isn't true, from the BBC program, the Story of Science:

"Prague, the opening days of the 17th century, a defining moment in
the creation of modern science. Three critical factors came together
- men with daring ideas
- collectors of evidence
- someone prepared to pay for it all."

The men of daring ideas and the collector of evidence were all
theists, the Someone who paid for it all was the Church;

"Europe was in turmoil, crisis of religious and political change
were sweeping across the continent.

It all started when a couple of the ages more original thinkers [Brahe
and Kepler] came to work at the court of the Holy Roman Emperor, Rudolf
II. In those days Prague was a major centre of power and culture.

The Emperor Rudolf was hungry for new ideas. His enormous wealth and
patronage drew to Prague one of the brightest stars of the age, Tycho
Brahe, an eccentric Danish nobleman. Science needs evidence and Tycho,
[a Lutheran] was a new sort of data gatherer.

Analysis of Tycho's data [by Kepler, another theist], would undermine a
belief system which had dominated western thought for over 2000 years "

It was not religion which wouild be overthrown, but OLD SCIENCE,
replaced by a better understanding. The Greek's geocentrism was
about to end..

"the Reformation, began as a revolt against the abuses of the church,
created an intellectual climate in which it became possible to question
authority."

First within the Church, then in politics, science, culture, et al

"Brahe's data, Keplers mathematical skills and the intellectual ferment
of the Reformation produced a radical new cosmology. One which when
proposed by Copernicus [another theist] had not changed much, but it got
Kepler thinking.

Kepler was convinced that the Sun, a symbol of God, produces a force
which drives the planets around it. He was also convinced that only a
sun centred cosmos could possibly account for the bizarre movements of
the planets."

"The Bible teaches us how to go to Heaven, not how the Heavens go"
- Galileo Galilei
If you look into the Galileo dispute more
closely, you'll see it was a mathematical dispute.
The problem at the time there wasn't a formal mathematical
proof of the heliocentric model. What the Church objected to
was that Galileo claimed he had the mathematical proof.
Galileo's proof of the heliocentric model was based
on the tides of the Earth, which was a ridiculous idea.
The Church knew it was faulty, and ordered him to stop
teaching his proof. Which came later from Newton.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
"According to a popular notion the point, upon which beyond
all others churchmen were determined to insist, was the geocentric
system of astronomy. Nevertheless it was a churchman, Nicholas
Copernicus, who first advanced the contrary doctrine that the sun
and not the earth is the centre of our system, round which our
planet revolves, rotating on its own axis. His great work, "De
Revolutionibus orbium coelestium", was published at the earnest
solicitation of two distinguished churchmen, Cardinal Schömberg
and Tiedemann Giese, Bishop of Culm. It was dedicated by
permission to Pope Paul III in order, as Copernicus explained,
that it might be thus protected from the attacks which it was sure
to encounter on the part of the "mathematicians" (i.e. philosophers)
for its apparent contradiction of the evidence of our senses, and
even of common sense. He added that he made no account of
objections which might be brought by ignorant wiseacres on
Scriptural grounds."
"Indeed, for nearly three quarters of a century no such difficulties
were raised on the Catholic side, although Luther and Melanchthon
condemned the work of Copernicus in unmeasured terms. Neither
Paul III, nor any of the nine popes who followed him, nor the
Roman Congregations raised any alarm, and, as has been seen,
Galileo himself in 1597, speaking of the risks he might run by an
advocacy of Copernicanism, mentioned ridicule only and said
nothing of persecution. Even when he had made his famous
discoveries, no change occurred in this respect. On the
contrary, coming to Rome in 1611, he was received in triumph;
all the world, clerical and lay, flocked to see him, and, setting up
his telescope in the Quirinal Garden belonging to Cardinal Bandim,
he exhibited the sunspots and other objects to an admiring throng."
"It was not until four years later that trouble arose, the ecclesiastical
authorities taking alarm at the persistence with which Galileo
proclaimed the truth of the Copernican doctrine. That their opposition
was grounded, as is constantly assumed, upon a fear lest men should
be enlightened by the diffusion of scientific truth, it is obviously absurd
to maintain. On the contrary, they were firmly convinced, with Bacon
and others, that the new teaching was radically false and unscientific,
while it is now truly admitted that Galileo himself had no sufficient proof
of what he so vehemently advocated, and Professor Huxley after
examining the case avowed his opinion that the opponents of
Galileo "had rather the best of it"."
Thomas Henry Huxley was an English biologist, known as
"Darwin's Bulldog" for his advocacy of Charles Darwin's theory
of evolution. Huxley's famous 1860 debate with Samuel
Wilberforce was a key moment in the wider acceptance
of evolution,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Henry_Huxley
"Then followed a decree of the Congregation of the Index dated
5 March 1616, prohibiting various heretical works to which were
added any advocating the Copernican system. In this decree
no mention is made of Galileo, or of any of his works. Neither
is the name of the pope introduced, though there is no doubt
that he fully approved the decision, having presided at the
session of the Inquisition, wherein the matter was discussed and
decided. In thus acting, it is undeniable that the ecclesiastical
authorities committed a grave and deplorable error, and sanctioned
an altogether false principle as to the proper use of Scripture.
Galileo and Foscarini rightly urged that the Bible is intended to
teach men to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. At the
same time, it must not be forgotten that, while there was as yet
no sufficient proof of the Copernican system, no objection
was made to its being taught as an hypothesis which explained
all phenomena in a simpler manner than the Ptolemaic,
and might for all practical purposes be adopted by
astronomers."
"What was objected to was the assertion that Copernicanism
was in fact true, "which appears to contradict Scripture". It is clear,
moreover, that the authors of the judgment themselves did not
consider it to be absolutely final and irreversible, for Cardinal
Bellarmine, the most influential member of the Sacred College,
writing to Foscarini, after urging that he and Galileo should be
content to show that their system explains all celestial phenomena
- an unexceptional proposition, and one sufficient for all practical
purposes - but should not categorically assert what seemed to
contradict the Bible, thus continued: I say that if a real proof be
found that the sun is fixed and does not revolve round the earth,
but the earth round the sun, then it will be necessary, very carefully,
to proceed to the explanation of the passages of Scripture which
appear to be contrary, and we should rather say that we have
misunderstood these than pronounce that to be false which
is demonstrated."
"By this decree the work of Copernicus was for the first time
prohibited, as well as the "Epitome" of Kepler, but in each instance
only donec corrigatur, the corrections prescribed being such as
were necessary to exhibit the Copernican system as an hypothesis,
not as an established fact. We learn further that with permission
these works might be read in their entirety, by "the learned and
skilful in the science" (Remus to Kepler). Galileo seems, says von
Gebler, to have treated the decree of the Inquisition pretty
coolly, speaking with satisfaction of the trifling changes prescribed
in the work of Copernicus. He left Rome, however, with the evident
intention of violating the promise extracted from him, and, while
he pursued unmolested his searches in other branches of science, he
lost no opportunity of manifesting his contempt for the astronomical
system which he had promised to embrace. Nevertheless, when in
1624 he again visited Rome, he met with what is rightly described
as "a noble and generous reception". The pope now reigning,
Urban VIII, had, as Cardinal Barberini, been his friend and had
opposed his condemnation in 1616. He conferred on his visitor
a pension, to which as a foreigner in Rome Galileo had no claim,
and which, says Brewster, must be regarded as an endowment
of Science itself. But to Galileo's disappointment Urban would not
annul the former judgment of the Inquisition."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06342b.htm
Your point?
you snipped it, you atheist liar and fraud:

<unsnip, and watch the atheists flee from the light of truth>
Post by fasgnadh
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients. At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
2011-04-18 10:38:06 UTC
Permalink
<Unsnip , lets see the truth that Bukakke runds from>
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
Clearly, Kepler's worldview, stated clearly here, shows that his belief
in a universe which was created to be intelligible to human reason,
inspired him to discover it's meaning, while atheists didn't.

Even by the time of Galileo, atheists, like all the other ignorant
peasants, were still flat-earthers, still believing in the outdated
geo centric universe, while theist scientists, more original and
profound thinkers, using data meticulously collected by the Lutheran,
Brahe, and funded by the Church, led the way for mankind.

Bukakke is upset because the truth refutes her nonsense that religion
is a "primitive superstition", the LIE that all the atheist tyrants
who imposed FORCED indoctrination of atheist dogma in EVERY
scientifically backwards atheist state, used to justify persecution of
theists, the destruction of Churches, Synagogues, Mosques and Temples!
While majority religious societies in Europe, The USA, Australia etc
were evolving advanced secular democracies, the atheist states were
regressing their nations back into primitive barbarism!

The Cultural Devolution:


That is the simple truth.. the religious have dragged humanity out
of the stone age into the modern era.. the atheists, in EVERY atheist
state in history, dragged them back into the stone age.. The USSR,
Maoist China, Pol Pots Cambodia.. every atheist state has been a
catastrophic FAILURE.
All the hard yards have been done by THEISTS, no civilisation has
ever been built by atheists, not even a decent democracy, all the
free, open, progressive, scientifically advanced, prosperous secular
democracies have all been built by majority religious societies.

And it is in those countries that the best science continues to be done!

It's all about FREEDOM TO THINK, SPEAK AND BELIEVE, something which
has been evolved IN NO ATHEIST STATE in history, only in majority
religious societies.
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients.
Epicurus and the other atheists of the time of Ptolemy all thought
that the earth was the centre of the universe, until the theist
scientists led them to a deeper understanding of cosmology.
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
The atheist states stultified science because they opposed freedom
of thought, speech and belief.


In the USSR, Maoist China and Pol Pot's genocidal tyranny, people were
executed just for being theists... for believing something atheists
didn't believe;

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940

But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire atheist State apparatus;

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
But not a single one of them used theology to make their discoveries
and offer their theories
Don't be absurd, theology, the study of religion, is not even an
essential component of BELIEF! YOu don't have to study theology
to be a theist, you atheist simpleton!

Your strawman argument merely shows your ignorance and is irrelevant
to the topic. It is their BELIEFS, not the academic debates of
theologians, which made these theist scientists so successful, as Kepler
EXPLAINED and you, running from the facts, SNIPPED! 8^o


Kepler's discovery was rooted in his belief that "God had created
the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."

Atheists, whose one idea is a feeble non belief in something clearly
couldn't inspire themselves into LOOKING for meaning in a universe
they believed HAD NONE.. so they sat on their arses whining impotently
and achieving bugger all.. just like Bukakke does today.

They BUILT NO UNIVERSITIES, NO SCHOOLS, NO HOSPITALS NO CHARITIES..
all the effort of civilisation building was left to the theists!
Post by Budikka666
- every last one of them used science.
Of course they used science, you moron, they were among the FOUNDERS
OF MODERN SCIENCE, part of the great upheaval, first in religious
thought,then in society, science and politics that was the reformation.

They didn't use the Bible to do science, they didn't use green cheese
to do science.. but their WORLDVIEW.. that "God had created
the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason." was a revolutionary inspiration
which drove their work. Believing the universe has meaning, inspired
them to discover that meaning.

You and your atheist cronies run around BLAMING GOD for putting
geese in the sky in front of passenger jet engines.. those theist
scientists understood that the birds are autonomous beings and flew
there on their own. Moreover, being theists they would USE THAT
UNDERSTANDING, apply their god-given REASON and develop ways of
detecting impending birdstrike, and avoiding it.. you simply
blame God for 'allowing' it to happen, when viewed holistically
the birds natural environment is the sky, and if we want to go there
WE SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR AVOIDING CRASHES.

Why are you atheists so incapable of tking RESPONSIBILITY for your
actions and your lives.. you just want Big Sky Mummy to fix it when
you stupidly step off a cliff!!!!
Post by Budikka666
Got it now
Well it has taken you LONG ENOUGH! B^D

Is there a reason you are so fucking STUPID?
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Not sure if that's something you ate or your grew..

but I'm pretty sure you will find some way to BLAME GOD for it!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA!

You are a sad loser, you snip all the facts and give us nothing
Post by Budikka666
Atheism and theism had nothing whatsoever to do with any of their
actual work.
Kepler disagrees.

Einstein supports Kepler's view that religion is critical
to good science;


"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

And their words and the words of all these THEIST
GIANTS OF SCIENCE, are worth a shitload more than the idle fancies
and unsupported DELUSIONS of a do-nothing, no-nothing mental midget and
scientific nobody like YOU:

The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it

- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher

René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.


I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world

- Louis Pasteur 1822-95

As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.

- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727

The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.

- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918

There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.

- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918

"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington

Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.

- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)



Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)


"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein

"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28

"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)


Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;

Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.

Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.

William Turner the "father of English botany"

John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.

Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.

- Galileo Galilei 1615.

..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954

The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven

- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology

Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.


Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine

Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.

Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society

Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.

Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.

Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,

Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician

Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday

Charles Babbage

Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"

Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.

Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.


Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,

Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials

Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry

John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.

Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics

Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,

Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.

Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest

Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science

von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.

Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.

Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.

John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.

Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.

Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize

Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.

John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.

Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.

Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.

Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.


And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Post by Budikka666
Got it now
You are making progress!

Same reason as before as to why you are so stupid and slow to catch on?
Post by Budikka666
flatnads?
Can you have them removed?
Post by Budikka666
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds about the kind of god
in which to believe and how to practice that belief.
No, they agreed about the 'kind of God' you ignoramus, as far as anyone
can.. what they disagreed about was the kind of CHURCH was best to
worship in.

It's like all loving Football, but belonging to different teams.

They share the essential rules of the game, but wear different uniforms.

The atheists only role is to bring out the oranges for the PLAYERS
at half time!
Post by Budikka666
Got it now
then we must be done! B^]
Post by Budikka666
faltnads?
Not my problem.. you best go see a doctor about treatment for them.
Post by Budikka666
Budikka
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

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"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

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fasgnadh
2011-04-18 15:31:33 UTC
Permalink
<Unsnip , lets see the truth that Bukakke runds from>
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
Atheists often make a great deal of the Medieval Church's persecution of
Galileo, as if it was typical of the relationship between religion
and science, but Galileo was not the first proponent of a heliocentric
model of our solar system, before him came Copernicus, who proposed that
the Sun, not the Earth, was at the centre of our solar system, and
Kepler, who used Brahe's brilliant astronomical observations to develop
the theory of planetary motion.
Copernicus was an Augustinian canon, specialising in canon law,
Tycho was a Lutheran, part of the revolution in human thinking
that followed the Reformation, and Kepler's discovery was rooted in
his belief that "God had created the world according to an intelligible
plan that is accessible through the natural light of reason."
Clearly, Kepler's worldview, stated clearly here, shows that his belief
in a universe which was created to be intelligible to human reason,
inspired him to discover it's meaning, while atheists didn't.

Even by the time of Galileo, atheists, like all the other ignorant
peasants, were still flat-earthers, still believing in the outdated
geo centric universe, while theist scientists, more original and
profound thinkers, using data meticulously collected by the Lutheran,
Brahe, and funded by the Church, led the way for mankind.

Bukakke is upset because the truth refutes her nonsense that religion
is a "primitive superstition", the LIE that all the atheist tyrants
who imposed FORCED indoctrination of atheist dogma in EVERY
scientifically backwards atheist state, used to justify persecution of
theists, the destruction of Churches, Synagogues, Mosques and Temples!
While majority religious societies in Europe, The USA, Australia etc
were evolving advanced secular democracies, the atheist states were
regressing their nations back into primitive barbarism!

The Cultural Devolution:
http://youtu.be/DIrUHVFkm9A

That is the simple truth.. the religious have dragged humanity out
of the stone age into the modern era.. the atheists, in EVERY atheist
state in history, dragged them back into the stone age.. The USSR,
Maoist China, Pol Pots Cambodia.. every atheist state has been a
catastrophic FAILURE.
All the hard yards have been done by THEISTS, no civilisation has
ever been built by atheists, not even a decent democracy, all the
free, open, progressive, scientifically advanced, prosperous secular
democracies have all been built by majority religious societies.

And it is in those countries that the best science continues to be done!

It's all about FREEDOM TO THINK, SPEAK AND BELIEVE, something which
has been evolved IN NO ATHEIST STATE in history, only in majority
religious societies.
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
The Giants of Astronomy, were all theists, who overturned the
geocentric view of the ancients.
Copernicus was a Catholic, Brahe a Lutheran, Kepler a Calvinist, near
enough. In short, every one of them was at odds
Rubbish, Brahe and Kepler worked together and there is no evidence
whatsoever of any conflict between them, sectarian or otherwise!

Where is your proof that 'they were are odds' about ANYTHING? B^[

Of course if you HAVE NONE, that will still not stop all the
other atheist bigots in USENET from supporting your LIES and
JEALOUS SLANDER of those men who are something you and richo will
NEVER BE, ... people of integrity who know what real science is!
Post by Budikka666
about the kind of god in which to believe
Provide your evidence. We know they were all theists, we know they all
believed in the God of Abraham, ..what evidence do you have about these
alleged 'differences they allegedly fought over.

If you can't post any then we will all know you are just FULL OF SHIT,
as usual, and the only people who blindly accept your baseless lies
Excellent point.
Really.

List the disputes between Brahe and Kepler that you have evidence of.
Show ion detail what the differences in the 'kind of God' they believed
in were and howe their disagreement(sic) manifested itself..

arguments, fist fights, law suits, poisonous pen letters, pulling faces?



Otherwise admit that you are just another lying athiest bigot who will

YOU ATHEISTS ARE FILTHY, LYING, PRAVDA PROPAGANDISTS!!!!!!
Well said.
Thanks, I believe the truth is important.


Epicurus and the other atheists of the time of Ptolemy all thought
that the earth was the centre of the universe, until the theist
scientists led them to a deeper understanding of cosmology.
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
At the time they published their
revolutionary Heliocentric understanding, atheists were still clinging
to the Geocentric myths of the Ptolemaic model.
The atheist states stultified science because they opposed freedom
of thought, speech and belief.


In the USSR, Maoist China and Pol Pot's genocidal tyranny, people were
executed just for being theists... for believing something atheists
didn't believe;

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940

But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire atheist State apparatus;

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
Post by Budikka666
Post by fasgnadh
Just as when the Big Bang theory was developed by a modern cleric! B^]
When atheists pretend they have an inside track on reason and science,
when there is NO HISTORICAL CORRELATION with atheism (in fact every
atheist state in history has been an irrational tyranny) the theists
they call "primitives, clinging to superstitious nonsense" are these
geniuses, the giants of astronomy, who gave us our undestanding of
Nicolaus Copernicus
"Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance,
Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician,
quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator,
artist, Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader,
diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities,
astronomy figured as little more than an avocation
—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world."
Copernicus a Renaissance astronomer was the first person to formulate a
comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the
center of the universe.
Copernicus' epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the
Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death
in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and
the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. ..
His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a
landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the
Copernican Revolution"
Tyge Ottesen Brahe
"Tycho, a Lutheran, is credited with the most accurate astronomical
observations of his time, and the data were used by his assistant,
Johannes Kepler, to derive the laws of planetary motion. No one before
Tycho had attempted to make so many planetary observations."
Johannes Kepler
"Kepler ..was a German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer, and key
figure in the 17th century scientific revolution. He is best known for
his eponymous laws of planetary motion, codified by later astronomers,
based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of
Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations
for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation."
"Kepler also incorporated religious arguments and reasoning into his
work, motivated by the religious conviction and belief that God had
created the world according to an intelligible plan that is accessible
through the natural light of reason."
This is a recurring theme throughout the history of science.
Theists, believing that a created universe had meaning, set out
to understand that meaning, and discovered it.
The atheist Flat Earthers at the time were, as usual, irrelevant to
science,still clinging to their Ptolemaic view of the sun, planets and
stars revolving in neat circles around the earth, much as the atheist
tyrants of the 20th century saw the world revolving around them, and the
feeble remnant of their failed tyrannies in alt.atheism see the universe
of ideas revolving around their (falsely) inflated ego's.
B^]
Of course science is an impermanent, ephemeral truth, it is
just man's CURRENT understanding of the world, and the Newtonian
Universe (another theist) has given away to a Quantum mechanical
one, .. but theists such as Le Maitre remain in the VANGUARD of original
thinkers;
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître was a Belgian priest,
astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of
Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin
of the Universe"
So when theists, and the Church are throughout history,
central to the scientific revolutions, why was Galileo
persecuted for saying what Copernicus and Kepler had
already published?
It was purely political, the Church, faced with challenges to it's
authority, acted to stifle what they foolishly took to be the
opposition. They forced the great man to retract... and he,
wise enough to separate the spiritual teachings from the organisational
bathwater, remained a believer.. and accepted silence.
Unlike the atheist regimes, which killed over 70,000,000 people
and have never apologised, the Church posthumously accepted they
were wrong, and apologised to Galileo.
That's how civilisations proceed .... B^]
with far less bloodshed than ANY atheist state in history! B^D
Oh, BTW, there is a lesson in there for the fundie Christian
Creationists..
"the Bible teaches us how to go to heaven,
not how the heavens go." - Galileo
--
http://youtu.be/8SxGJ1w4BFw

---------

alt.atheism FAQ:

http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/


http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source



"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"We must combat religion"
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

“Down with religion and long live atheism;
the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!”
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)



http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest


"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest

http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg


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