Discussion:
Former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offenses.
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Dechucka
2020-03-07 01:01:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.

Neale Valentine, 56, was arrested at Sydney International Airport on
Wednesday after an investigation into alleged child abuse in the 1990s.

So far his seven charges relate to the alleged abuse of a 14-year-old
boy during NSW and overseas Scout camps, but Central Local Court was
today told police are investigating another three or four complainants
Patrick B
2020-03-07 12:32:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.

All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
Dechucka
2020-03-07 19:07:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
Patrick B
2020-03-07 21:05:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
ABSOLUTELY.
Post by Dechucka
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
The scouts QUIETLY talked with the alleged scout abusers, and knew
they had problems. And, like the RCC, felt that this might be enough.
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued. A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Dechucka
2020-03-07 21:26:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
ABSOLUTELY.
Post by Dechucka
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
The scouts QUIETLY talked with the alleged scout abusers, and knew
they had problems. And, like the RCC, felt that this might be enough.
Actually the RCC actively transferred priests that were complained about
to keep abusing. This is why, like the Scouts, 24 Dioceses in the USA
have filed for Chapt. 11 relief
Post by Patrick B
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
What is wrong with gay scoutmasters or gay kids in the Scouts or in the
RCC? The scouting organization in Italy has had girl scouts for at least
20 years fully supported by the RCC. As a Rover in the 1970 we had
female members, lots of fun was had.
Post by Patrick B
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued.
Really why can't individual Boy Scout organizations be sued? I note that
it is the RCC Dioceses being sued in the USA not the RCC in general. The
RCC in Australia tried to claim that it wasn't an entity in an attempt
to not be sued for its' systematic cover up of abuse in Aus and allowing
its' priests to keep on abusing. As occurred in the US and many other
countries.
Post by Patrick B
A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Really than who is this mob National Catholic Committee on Scouting (Boy
Scouts of America) http://www.nccs-bsa.org
Patrick B
2020-03-07 23:22:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
ABSOLUTELY.
Post by Dechucka
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
The scouts QUIETLY talked with the alleged scout abusers, and knew
they had problems. And, like the RCC, felt that this might be enough.
Actually the RCC actively transferred priests that were complained about
to keep abusing.
That is really not true.
Out of 3000 priests that were accused of abusing children, over 90
percent of them were sent to counselling centers immediately. And of
all those sent there, only a few dozen ever abused children again.

Now I am not minimizing the problem.
The RCC was not prepared to confront the numerous cases that arose
when the liberals started accepting gays into the ministry. This was
a new and horrible crisis, one that the RCC was not prepared to face.

Just as any new problem arises in the universe, it takes a while to
figure out what the problem is, and how to fix it. (Coronavirus).

The RCC did not deliberately move any abusive priest to another
location for the sole purposed of abusing more children.

You are sick if you think this.
Post by Dechucka
This is why, like the Scouts, 24 Dioceses in the USA
have filed for Chapt. 11 relief
Absolutely.
When states see some deep pockets of an organization that is a pain in
their ass, they lick their lips when they can pass legislation to
remove statutes of limitations and gouge the the church.
The dioceses are merely trying to survive the evils that a few child
abusers have done to the church.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
What is wrong with gay scoutmasters or gay kids in the Scouts or in the
RCC? The scouting organization in Italy has had girl scouts for at least
20 years fully supported by the RCC. As a Rover in the 1970 we had
female members, lots of fun was had.
There is nothing wrong with anyone who is moral and honest.
The RCC learned a valuable lesson in the late 60's and 70's when they
began to accept gay men into the ministry. It became a super club for
them with lots of temptation on their plates. And, they took
advantage of it. Once the RCC restricted gay people from serving as
clerics, the child abuse crisis dropped to near zero. You cannot
argue with results.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued.
Really why can't individual Boy Scout organizations be sued?
I'm not sure. I just know that it is not possible at this time. I
think it has to do with who is actually in charge, and how much
"MONEY" is available to snatch from them. Some local boy scout
organizations are located in schools, some in church organizations,
etc. Their leaders are usually volunteers.
Post by Dechucka
I note that
it is the RCC Dioceses being sued in the USA not the RCC in general.
Each diocese has one bishop in charge. And that bishop is basically
in charge of all the parishes in the diocese, and he is the one who
moves priests from one parish to another. Most priests stay in a
parish 7 years and then is moved. (within the same diocese.)
Post by Dechucka
The
RCC in Australia tried to claim that it wasn't an entity in an attempt
to not be sued for its' systematic cover up of abuse in Aus and allowing
its' priests to keep on abusing. As occurred in the US and many other
countries.
Trying to blame the pope for one priest's actions in a small parish is
as stupid as blaming the CEO of Ford, or GE, or Microsoft for the
actions of one of their employees.
Post by Dechucka
A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
Post by Patrick B
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Really than who is this mob National Catholic Committee on Scouting (Boy
Scouts of America) http://www.nccs-bsa.org
WOW. I am amazed, once again....
Their numbers have been declining for years.
The membership stands now at 2.3 million, down from 2.6 million five
years ago. The decline likely would have been even steeper had many
sponsoring churches, notably Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist and
Mormon congregations, not continued to bar committed homosexuals as
troop leaders. Many of those Scout troops would have disbanded rather
than compromise fundamental religious beliefs.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/9/editorial-boy-scouts-of-america-with-declining-ran/

Ignoring pleas of parents and polls demonstrating wide public
opposition to the change, the Scouts discontinued their long-standing
prohibition of openly homosexual Scoutmasters. The organization
further embraced gender dysphoria, banishing the word “Boy” and became
the gender-neutral “Scouts BSA.” It’s not clear what the B in BSA now
stands for. “Befuddled,” perhaps, or “belittled.” If that were not
enough to confuse a saint, the troops, as individual groups are
called, remain divided along gender lines, at least for now. The
gender-reassignment surgery is now all but complete, with the change
in name the final step in a transition from Boy Scouts to whatever the
national organization now thinks itself to be.

+Actually I thought the boy scout organizations were circling the
drain.

I was a boy scout when I was a kid, and I loved attending the camping
trips, canoe trips, learning to start fires and cook meals. It was
fun.
Dechucka
2020-03-07 23:49:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
ABSOLUTELY.
Post by Dechucka
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
The scouts QUIETLY talked with the alleged scout abusers, and knew
they had problems. And, like the RCC, felt that this might be enough.
Actually the RCC actively transferred priests that were complained about
to keep abusing.
That is really not true.
It is true happened in Australia and happened in the US
Post by Patrick B
Out of 3000 priests that were accused of abusing children, over 90
percent of them were sent to counselling centers immediately. And of
all those sent there, only a few dozen ever abused children again.
Love to see the data on that. Of course US dioceses didn't only transfer
abusing preists in within the US but also overseas eg Rev. Jose Pinal,
Post by Patrick B
Now I am not minimizing the problem.
The RCC was not prepared to confront the numerous cases that arose
when the liberals started accepting gays into the ministry.
When was this?
Post by Patrick B
This was
a new and horrible crisis, one that the RCC was not prepared to face.
Which the RCC handle by not reporting the crimes but worse allowed the
abuse to continue
Post by Patrick B
Just as any new problem arises in the universe, it takes a while to
figure out what the problem is, and how to fix it. (Coronavirus).
The RCC did not deliberately move any abusive priest to another
location for the sole purposed of abusing more children.
They did it to protect the RCC at the expense of the abused
Post by Patrick B
You are sick if you think this.
Post by Dechucka
This is why, like the Scouts, 24 Dioceses in the USA
have filed for Chapt. 11 relief
Absolutely.
When states see some deep pockets of an organization that is a pain in
their ass, they lick their lips when they can pass legislation to
remove statutes of limitations and gouge the the church.
The dioceses are merely trying to survive the evils that a few child
abusers have done to the church.
They are trying to survive their disgusting behavior in covering up
abuse and allowing abusers to reabuse
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
What is wrong with gay scoutmasters or gay kids in the Scouts or in the
RCC? The scouting organization in Italy has had girl scouts for at least
20 years fully supported by the RCC. As a Rover in the 1970 we had
female members, lots of fun was had.
There is nothing wrong with anyone who is moral and honest.
Are you claiming gay scoutmasters and gay kids in the Scouts are immoral
or dishonest?
Post by Patrick B
The RCC learned a valuable lesson in the late 60's and 70's when they
began to accept gay men into the ministry. It became a super club for
them with lots of temptation on their plates. And, they took
advantage of it. Once the RCC restricted gay people from serving as
clerics, the child abuse crisis dropped to near zero.
When did that happen?

You cannot
Post by Patrick B
argue with results.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued.
Really why can't individual Boy Scout organizations be sued?
I'm not sure. I just know that it is not possible at this time.
They of course can be sued
Post by Patrick B
I
think it has to do with who is actually in charge, and how much
"MONEY" is available to snatch from them. Some local boy scout
organizations are located in schools, some in church organizations,
etc. Their leaders are usually volunteers.
So they can be sued but to what purpose.
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
I note that
it is the RCC Dioceses being sued in the USA not the RCC in general.
Each diocese has one bishop in charge. And that bishop is basically
in charge of all the parishes in the diocese, and he is the one who
moves priests from one parish to another. Most priests stay in a
parish 7 years and then is moved. (within the same diocese.)
So what? Seems the RCC in general can't be sued the individual dioceses
must be made responsible for their disgusting behaviour
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
The
RCC in Australia tried to claim that it wasn't an entity in an attempt
to not be sued for its' systematic cover up of abuse in Aus and allowing
its' priests to keep on abusing. As occurred in the US and many other
countries.
Trying to blame the pope for one priest's actions
Where did that come from. Nobody is blaming the Pope it is the RCC that
allowed the abusers to keep going
Post by Patrick B
in a small parish is
as stupid as blaming the CEO of Ford, or GE, or Microsoft for the
actions of one of their employees.
Companies get sued for the actions of their employees regularly
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
Post by Patrick B
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Really than who is this mob National Catholic Committee on Scouting (Boy
Scouts of America) http://www.nccs-bsa.org
WOW. I am amazed, once again....
and wrong once again.

Oh well when the scout-master in the OP goes to trial it will be
interesting to see if you support him like you do Pell, only one accuser
and long-time ago
Patrick B
2020-03-08 11:42:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-sex-charges/12030010
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted to
police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house, a
court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades.
Just as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the
law. If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
ABSOLUTELY.
Post by Dechucka
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
The scouts QUIETLY talked with the alleged scout abusers, and knew
they had problems. And, like the RCC, felt that this might be enough.
Actually the RCC actively transferred priests that were complained about
to keep abusing.
That is really not true.
It is true happened in Australia and happened in the US
It appears that this happened. Here in the USA, the RCC set up a
dozen counselling centers to send alleged abusers to. We hired the
best and brightest shrinks to help straighten out this problem. We
sent these alleged abusers there and they were kept there until either
cured or disavowed. Thousands of alleged abusers went there. And
only a few dozen of them were tricky enough to work the system and be
released back to the Church.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Out of 3000 priests that were accused of abusing children, over 90
percent of them were sent to counselling centers immediately. And of
all those sent there, only a few dozen ever abused children again.
Love to see the data on that. Of course US dioceses didn't only transfer
abusing preists in within the US but also overseas eg Rev. Jose Pinal,
I can't speak for overseas.
I know the USA Bishops got together in 2002 and came up with strict
protocols on what to do with any alleged abuser.
The Vatican was really pissed off.
They disavowed the actions until they could study and approve those
actions. It took a few years, and they finally blessed the actions.
However, the rest of the world was not forced to follow the same
actions or protocols.

Yes, there have been some cases here in America where a few priests
were accused of abuse since 2002. But, most of those cases came from
20-40 years before. Or, they came from "foreign" priests that were
sent here by their home countries. Or, the cases involve looking at
"porn."
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Now I am not minimizing the problem.
The RCC was not prepared to confront the numerous cases that arose
when the liberals started accepting gays into the ministry.
When was this?
Late 1960's and 1970's.
It was a different time then.
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll....
Flower children, free love, God is dead, that sort of thing.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
This was
a new and horrible crisis, one that the RCC was not prepared to face.
Which the RCC handle by not reporting the crimes but worse allowed the
abuse to continue
They did not report crimes they were not aware of. And when victims
did come forward (to the church), the victims did not want to be
identified, AND.... the leading shrinks of the day claimed they could
"CURE" these child abusers. The church also did not want the
publicity, and they quietly sent the "alleged abusers" off to the
treastment centers. Many were sent up across the country.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Just as any new problem arises in the universe, it takes a while to
figure out what the problem is, and how to fix it. (Coronavirus).
The RCC did not deliberately move any abusive priest to another
location for the sole purposed of abusing more children.
They did it to protect the RCC at the expense of the abused
Post by Patrick B
You are sick if you think this.
Post by Dechucka
This is why, like the Scouts, 24 Dioceses in the USA
have filed for Chapt. 11 relief
Absolutely.
When states see some deep pockets of an organization that is a pain in
their ass, they lick their lips when they can pass legislation to
remove statutes of limitations and gouge the the church.
The dioceses are merely trying to survive the evils that a few child
abusers have done to the church.
They are trying to survive their disgusting behavior in covering up
abuse and allowing abusers to reabuse
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
What is wrong with gay scoutmasters or gay kids in the Scouts or in the
RCC? The scouting organization in Italy has had girl scouts for at least
20 years fully supported by the RCC. As a Rover in the 1970 we had
female members, lots of fun was had.
There is nothing wrong with anyone who is moral and honest.
Are you claiming gay scoutmasters and gay kids in the Scouts are immoral
or dishonest?
Post by Patrick B
The RCC learned a valuable lesson in the late 60's and 70's when they
began to accept gay men into the ministry. It became a super club for
them with lots of temptation on their plates. And, they took
advantage of it. Once the RCC restricted gay people from serving as
clerics, the child abuse crisis dropped to near zero.
When did that happen?
You cannot
Post by Patrick B
argue with results.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued.
Really why can't individual Boy Scout organizations be sued?
I'm not sure. I just know that it is not possible at this time.
They of course can be sued
Post by Patrick B
I
think it has to do with who is actually in charge, and how much
"MONEY" is available to snatch from them. Some local boy scout
organizations are located in schools, some in church organizations,
etc. Their leaders are usually volunteers.
So they can be sued but to what purpose.
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
I note that
it is the RCC Dioceses being sued in the USA not the RCC in general.
Each diocese has one bishop in charge. And that bishop is basically
in charge of all the parishes in the diocese, and he is the one who
moves priests from one parish to another. Most priests stay in a
parish 7 years and then is moved. (within the same diocese.)
So what? Seems the RCC in general can't be sued the individual dioceses
must be made responsible for their disgusting behaviour
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
The
RCC in Australia tried to claim that it wasn't an entity in an attempt
to not be sued for its' systematic cover up of abuse in Aus and allowing
its' priests to keep on abusing. As occurred in the US and many other
countries.
Trying to blame the pope for one priest's actions
Where did that come from. Nobody is blaming the Pope it is the RCC that
allowed the abusers to keep going
Post by Patrick B
in a small parish is
as stupid as blaming the CEO of Ford, or GE, or Microsoft for the
actions of one of their employees.
Companies get sued for the actions of their employees regularly
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
Post by Patrick B
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Really than who is this mob National Catholic Committee on Scouting (Boy
Scouts of America) http://www.nccs-bsa.org
WOW. I am amazed, once again....
and wrong once again.
Oh well when the scout-master in the OP goes to trial it will be
interesting to see if you support him like you do Pell, only one accuser
and long-time ago
Patrick B
2020-03-08 11:44:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
This was
a new and horrible crisis, one that the RCC was not prepared to face.
Which the RCC handle by not reporting the crimes but worse allowed the
abuse to continue
++ Hit the wrong button+++\

Below is a list of sexaual abuse clinics bought and paid for by the
RCC here in the USA:

Johns Hopkins University Sexual Disorders Clinic

Institute of Living, Hartford Connecticut

Seton Psychiatric Institute, Baltimore, Maryland

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at John Hopkins
University School of Medicine

Clinic and Polyclinic for Child and Youth Psychiatry/Psychotherapy at
the University of Ulm, Germany

Paraclete Center

Philip Jenkins, Pennsylvania State University, has studied sexual
abuse in the priesthood.

Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Hospital in Chicago

Money-Berlin sex clinic,"

Menninger Foundation in Topeka, Kansas

Carelink, St Vincents Hospital, Melbourne

Ballarat.

pastoral psychology at Loyola College in Baltimore

Jemez Springs, New Mexico

Royal Ottawa Hospital

McLean Hospital in Belmont,

Arizona treatment center

Harvard Medical School, Boston, USA

Institute for Forensic Psychiatry, Free University of Berlin, Germany

Queen's University, Ontario, Canada

Forensic Psychotherapy at the University of Ulm,

Psychosomatic illness and Psychotherapy, University of Gie?en,
Germany.

Massachusetts Treatment Center for Sexually Dangerous Persons in
Bridgewater

St. Luke Institute - is inconspicuous to passersby on the street.
Keeping a low profile is important, because most of the 70 residents
are troubled Roman Catholic priests, a quarter of them accused of
molesting children.
Founded in 1981 by a priest-psychiatrist who later died of AIDS; St.
Luke is one of a handful of church-sponsored treatment programs across
the country that U.S. bishops have turned to for assistance in dealing
with priests who abuse children. In some instances, court records have
revealed, priests accused of abuse were sent periodically to these
treatment centers and then returned to ministry.

Kinsey Institute at the University of Indiana

Berlin/Money Sexual Disorders Clinic s

Trinity House, an outpatient clinic in Chicago


Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality,

Rosenberg Clinic in Galveston ... Active treatment, especially
chemical treatment,

Tulane School of Social Work. Tulane's multidisciplinary approach is a
welcome addition to existing civil defenders such the New Orleans
Legal Aid Corp. and the Pro Bono project.

Still, in the admissions protocol for their program, Berlin and Money
guarantee those engaged in past, present or future child sexual abuse,
"We will not, however, report to your Probation Officer information
you tell us as a part of the normal doctor-patient privileged
relationship." By 1988 "at least eight men [were] convicted of
sexually abusing Maryland children while under treatment" at the Johns
Hopkins clinic." supporting the Maryland Attorney General's rejection
of Dr. Berlin's effort to cover-up ongoing child abuse. Moreover, Dr.
Paul McHugh, as former Johns Hopkins director of psychiatry and a
member of the Baltimore Archdiocese's Independent Review Board on
Child Sexual Matters was fully supportive of Berlin's efforts to
protect even active pedophiles in treatment at Johns Hopkins.

As you may know, St Luke's is one of the primary Catholic treatment
centers for priests battling personal sexuality issues. It is
disturbing, to say the least, that the founder of the institution has
such high praise and regard for men such as Drs. Money and Berlin. In
short, our Lord long ago warned of wolves in sheep's clothing and, as
detailed above, Kinseyan wolves have provided guidance to the Church
in therapeutically managing homosexual priests. Since the 50s, the
criminal justice system has adopted the same Kinseyan view of sex
offenders and therapeutic management as has the Church, with the same
disappointing and destructive results.


http://www.szasz.com/washtimesaccomplice.html


THE PSYCHIATRIST AS ACCOMPLICE
by
Thomas S. Szasz, M.D.
SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES
In the long history of priests sexually abusing children, perpetrators
and victims play the principal parts. However, there are two other
important players in this drama, only one of which - the priests'
superiors, who ignored and indeed facilitated the crimes of their
subordinates - have received attention.
But the identity, the very existence, of the other accomplices - the
psychiatrists and psychiatric institutions that "diagnose" and "treat"
priests who, in fact, are criminals - has been overlooked. Why?
Because they are an integral part of our love affair with medicalizing
life and replacing responsibility with "therapy."
The tragedy of pedophilia begins, as do many modern tragedies, by
people stupefying themselves by confusing their own tongue,
re-enacting God's punishment of mankind at Babel. An adult who uses a
child for his sexual gratification is a kind of rapist: He is guilty
of the crime of assault. Such a person is a criminal, not a patient.
How does medicine - talking about diseases and treatments - enter into
this affair? The same way it enters into our belief that other
(mis)behaviors are diseases, amenable to treatment - through
psychiatry. It's a long story that can be condensed into a few
sentences. For millennia, masturbation, homosexuality, and the many
other non-heterosexual, non-procreative uses of the genital organs
were considered to be grievous sins and were prevented and punished
accordingly.
Toward the end of the 19th century, they started becoming "mental"
diseases. This process played an important part in the transformation
of mad-doctoring as quackery into modern psychiatry as a bona fide
branch of medicine.
Creating diseases by coining disease-sounding terms was raised to the
level of a psychiatric art form by Baron Richard von Krafft-Ebing
(1840-1902), a German-born psychiatrist who was professor of
psychiatry at the Universities of Strasbourg, Graz and Vienna. The
work that made Krafft-Ebing world famous is "Psychopathia
Sexualis,"the first edition of which appeared in 1886. Sexology became
an integral part of medicine - and the new science of psychiatry - by
physicians authoritatively renaming sexual sins "sexual perversions"
and declaring them to be "cerebral neuroses" (Krafft-Ebing).
Lawyers, politicians and the public embraced this transformation as
the progress of science, rather than dismissing it as medical
megalomania based on nothing more than the manipulation of language.
Yet, Krafft-Ebing himself acknowledged that what he was doing had
nothing to do with science. It had to with "compassion." He wrote:
"The physician finds, perhaps, a solace in the fact that he may at
times refer those manifestations which offend against our ethical and
aesthetical principles to a diseased condition of the mind or the
body. ... He can save the honor of humanity in the forum of morality,
and the honor of the individual before the judge and his fellow-men."
Sigmund Freud extended Krafft-Ebing's psychopathologizing from sexual
behavior to everyday behavior. In "The Psychopathology of Everyday
Life" (1901), he inverted William Shakespeare's humanistic
interpretation of conflict as an integral part of life into a
dehumanized interpretation of tragedy as a manifestation of
psychopathology.
At the root of the confusion about pedophilia lies the term "sex
crime." Exemplified by rape, so-called sex crimes are particularly
heinous types of assault. But assaults that result in blinding the
victim or rendering him paraplegic are also heinous, but we do not, on
that account, call them "eye crimes" or "neurological crimes." The
belief that sex crimes are "special" paves the way for the delusion
that they are diseases, a false belief psychiatrists turn into
"reality" by naming what were formerly perversions "paraphilias"
(homophilia, necrophilia, pedophilia, zoophilia).
This is factually erroneous and morally wicked, because sexually
assaulting a child is not a disease (just as homosexuality was never a
disease), and because viewing "pedophilia" as an illness, like
pneumonia, implies that the subject is not responsible for it and it
is treatable. In turn, these beliefs lead to excusing the behavior and
engaging in a pseudomedical charade of treating it. The result is that
psychiatrists and psychiatric institutions become accomplices to
pedophilia, especially by priests.
According to press reports, "centers used by the Catholic Church today
include the Johns Hopkins clinic, the Institute of Living and the
Menninger Foundation in Topeka, Kans., according to those who treat
pedophilic priests. For the most part, the regimen for treating
pedophilia involves individual and group therapy to break down denial
and a 12-step program, similar to the Alcoholics Anonymous model, to
help control sexual addictions.
That is the psychiatrists' version of such programs. The clergy's
version, judging by their actions, is that such programs provide safe
houses for sexually misbehaving priests, where they can be hidden
until they are quietly reassigned to ply their trade elsewhere.
Fred Berlin, the founder of the Johns Hopkins Sexual Disorders Clinic,
is quoted as saying that pedophilic patients are closely monitored
after being discharged from a program. However, pedophilic priests are
criminals who should be imprisoned, not monitored by psychiatrists
paid off for their collusion by the Catholic Church.
I contend that psychiatrists - especially the authors of the
influential "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder,"
published in periodically revised editions by the American Psychiatric
Association - are, like the pedophile priests' superiors, accomplices
to their crimes. Their offense is classifying and treating pedophilia
as a disease. In the absence of that deception, tragedies such as the
Catholic Church and the victims now face could not come into being.
A Boston news Web site reported: "A.W. Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist
and former monk who counseled sexually disordered priests in the 1970s
and 1980s at the Seton Psychiatric Institute and the Johns Hopkins
University Sexual Disorders Clinic, recalls: 'Oh, Father [John]
Geoghan. He is well known in the circles of those who treat priest
pedophiles. He is notorious because he has been treated by so many
people, at nearly every psychiatric hospital in the country'"
(http://www.bostonphoenix.com/
boston/news_features/top/features/documents/00882888.html).
Credo quia absurdum est.
Patrick B
2020-03-08 12:02:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Part 3...
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
This was
a new and horrible crisis, one that the RCC was not prepared to face.
Which the RCC handle by not reporting the crimes but worse allowed the
abuse to continue
No one allows abuse to continue.
One tries to fix the problem, and then ignore it for a while.
This was not the best way to handle this.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Just as any new problem arises in the universe, it takes a while to
figure out what the problem is, and how to fix it. (Coronavirus).
The RCC did not deliberately move any abusive priest to another
location for the sole purposed of abusing more children.
They did it to protect the RCC at the expense of the abused
It appears that way.
But then, you don't like Catholics.
You remind me of democrats in this country who hate trump just because
he is Trump. You ignore all the good that has happened.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
This is why, like the Scouts, 24 Dioceses in the USA
have filed for Chapt. 11 relief
Absolutely.
When states see some deep pockets of an organization that is a pain in
their ass, they lick their lips when they can pass legislation to
remove statutes of limitations and gouge the the church.
The dioceses are merely trying to survive the evils that a few child
abusers have done to the church.
They are trying to survive their disgusting behavior in covering up
abuse and allowing abusers to reabuse
If that is what you need to think.
But then, you hate Catholics.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The scouts (over the years) had to sell off properties, and were
placed behind the 8 ball when the liberals started demanded more from
them - like allowing openly gay leaders to serve, and allowing gay
children join. And now, they have been forced to accept girls into
the boy scouts.
What is wrong with gay scoutmasters or gay kids in the Scouts or in the
RCC? The scouting organization in Italy has had girl scouts for at least
20 years fully supported by the RCC. As a Rover in the 1970 we had
female members, lots of fun was had.
There is nothing wrong with anyone who is moral and honest.
Are you claiming gay scoutmasters and gay kids in the Scouts are immoral
or dishonest?
WHy would I?
Just because you are from Australia, does this make you immoral and/or
dishonest? I like to accuse you because you just don't understand
that there are a Billion Catholics in this world, and MOST of us are
honest, decent, law abiding citizens who want to make this world a
better place.

When you bash all Catholics, I turn around and bash all you folks from
the penal colony. I guess you just can't see why I do this to you.
You just get madder and double down.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The RCC learned a valuable lesson in the late 60's and 70's when they
began to accept gay men into the ministry. It became a super club for
them with lots of temptation on their plates. And, they took
advantage of it. Once the RCC restricted gay people from serving as
clerics, the child abuse crisis dropped to near zero.
When did that happen?
May 2002 - at the US Conference of Bishops in Dallas TX.
Post by Dechucka
You cannot
Post by Patrick B
argue with results.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
The RCC has the advantage of being a religious organization that can
claim that fags have hurt the organization in the past, and we cannot
accept gays into the ministry. Plus, each boy scout organization can
claim anonimity and separation from the parent Boy Scouts, and they
cannot be sued.
Really why can't individual Boy Scout organizations be sued?
I'm not sure. I just know that it is not possible at this time.
They of course can be sued
There are no deep pockets there.
Just because a school or church "SPONSORS" a boy scout troop, this
does not mean that they can be held responsible for the actions of a
volunteer who works with the scouts.

I suppose a victim could see an individual scout leader, but proof is
hard to come by, and there is a lot of litigation involved, and not
much money. Lawyers only see money in large class action suits.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
I
think it has to do with who is actually in charge, and how much
"MONEY" is available to snatch from them. Some local boy scout
organizations are located in schools, some in church organizations,
etc. Their leaders are usually volunteers.
So they can be sued but to what purpose.
My point exactly.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
I note that
it is the RCC Dioceses being sued in the USA not the RCC in general.
Each diocese has one bishop in charge. And that bishop is basically
in charge of all the parishes in the diocese, and he is the one who
moves priests from one parish to another. Most priests stay in a
parish 7 years and then is moved. (within the same diocese.)
So what? Seems the RCC in general can't be sued the individual dioceses
must be made responsible for their disgusting behaviour
Most of the "alleged abusers" are dead and gone, retired, defrocked.
Most of the Bishops who moved those abusers around are dead or gone,
or retired also. They don't have any money. But... the diocese is
full of cash. Deep pockets. Take all their cash so they can't give
it to the poor anymore.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
The
RCC in Australia tried to claim that it wasn't an entity in an attempt
to not be sued for its' systematic cover up of abuse in Aus and allowing
its' priests to keep on abusing. As occurred in the US and many other
countries.
Trying to blame the pope for one priest's actions
Where did that come from. Nobody is blaming the Pope it is the RCC that
allowed the abusers to keep going
How do you figure?
Do you have some proof that there is some sort of protocol that says
the RCC can move abusers in order to abuse more children?
Of course not.
Get real.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
in a small parish is
as stupid as blaming the CEO of Ford, or GE, or Microsoft for the
actions of one of their employees.
Companies get sued for the actions of their employees regularly
Not in child abuse cases.
Nad these cases are the hot buttons of society.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Patrick B
Post by Dechucka
A friend of mine used to be a scout leader but quit
Post by Patrick B
when he saw the organization changing -- for the worse. Plus, the RCC
has pulled out of sponsoring boy scout groups also, starting about 20
years ago.
Really than who is this mob National Catholic Committee on Scouting (Boy
Scouts of America) http://www.nccs-bsa.org
WOW. I am amazed, once again....
and wrong once again.
Oh well when the scout-master in the OP goes to trial it will be
interesting to see if you support him like you do Pell, only one accuser
and long-time ago
I will not.
I don't defend Pell.
I merely state he wasn't given a fair trial.
Big difference.
news18
2020-03-08 00:40:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.

What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't
The problem is that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a
collection of state based bodies and leader training and records are not
centralised. IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were
really locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain
local areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
''
Dechucka
2020-03-08 01:13:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
If you look at the Royal Commission that unfortunately didn't seem to be
the case, Larkins is a classic example
Post by Dechucka
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.
He was kicked out/resigned from of the Scouts in 1995
Post by Dechucka
What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't
The problem is that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a
collection of state based bodies and leader training and records are not
centralised. IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were
really locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain
local areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
The Scouts have tried that defense of being an unincorporated body to
not pay compensation.
news18
2020-03-08 02:03:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty.
Interestingly "Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It
Faces Hundreds Of Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like
the RCC, covered up and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences
admitted to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at
his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just
as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
If you look at the Royal Commission that unfortunately didn't seem to be
the case, Larkins is a classic example
Exactly what are talking about?
Is this the one who transferred interstate and carried on?

Or one who was allowed too closely into a child's life?
In my view, that is failure of the local scout group and the parent's to
draw appropriate boundaries, which allowed this to happen?
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.
He was kicked out/resigned from of the Scouts in 1995
Post by Dechucka
What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't The problem is
that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a collection of
state based bodies and leader training and records are not centralised.
IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were really
locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain local
areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
The Scouts have tried that defense of being an unincorporated body to
not pay compensation.
Well, that is a legal argument.
IME,, a child didn't take part in any activity unless parent/guardian
gave permission. (Mongrel paperwork).
I thought a true defence is that "shit happens" and contributary
negligence by parent/guardian.

OTOH, as a leader,there was no training sessions on how to spot a likely
pedo. there was arule that everyone who interacted reguarly had to fill a
preliminary intention to apply for a warrant,that suppossedly lead to a
police check, but knowing what I know now about these, it would not have
been useful.
It sounds like
Dechucka
2020-03-08 02:13:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by news18
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty.
Interestingly "Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It
Faces Hundreds Of Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like
the RCC, covered up and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences
admitted to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at
his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just
as the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
If you look at the Royal Commission that unfortunately didn't seem to be
the case, Larkins is a classic example
Exactly what are talking about?
Is this the one who transferred interstate and carried on?
Or one who was allowed too closely into a child's life?
In my view, that is failure of the local scout group and the parent's to
draw appropriate boundaries, which allowed this to happen?
The Scouting movement in Australia failed to handle abuse allegation
properly in Australia and have admitted it. A great organization imo
which I enjoyed greatly from my Cub days at 1st Mosman Bay
Post by news18
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.
He was kicked out/resigned from of the Scouts in 1995
Post by Dechucka
What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't The problem is
that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a collection of
state based bodies and leader training and records are not centralised.
IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were really
locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain local
areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
The Scouts have tried that defense of being an unincorporated body to
not pay compensation.
Well, that is a legal argument.
IME,, a child didn't take part in any activity unless parent/guardian
gave permission. (Mongrel paperwork).
I thought a true defence is that "shit happens" and contributary
negligence by parent/guardian.
Not sure it has much legal standing, I suppose any organization could
use that defense.
Post by news18
OTOH, as a leader,there was no training sessions on how to spot a likely
pedo. there was arule that everyone who interacted reguarly had to fill a
preliminary intention to apply for a warrant,that suppossedly lead to a
police check, but knowing what I know now about these, it would not have
been useful.
It sounds like
Patrick B
2020-03-08 12:09:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
The Scouting movement in Australia failed to handle abuse allegation
properly in Australia and have admitted it. A great organization imo
which I enjoyed greatly from my Cub days at 1st Mosman Bay
So........ you want the whole organization to suffer?
Let them learn a lesson. Pass some laws. Force the organization to
rewrite its constitution and By-laws.
Don't take away the opportunity for future boys to enjoy all the
things they learn in scouting.
Fran
2020-03-08 01:57:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
I think that is closer to it than with the Catholic Church. The
Catholic Church just put its fingers in it's collective ears and sang La
la la la as it transferred its paedophiles to a new location. The only
responses I've heard of with the scouts was instant police action and
shoving the out the door to be dealt with by the cops.
Post by Dechucka
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.
What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't
The problem is that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a
collection of state based bodies and leader training and records are not
centralised. IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were
really locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain
local areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
''
Dechucka
2020-03-08 02:19:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
  If they are guilty.  And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
I think that is closer to it than with the Catholic Church.  The
Catholic Church just put its fingers in it's collective ears and sang La
la la la as it transferred its paedophiles to a new location.  The only
responses I've heard of with the scouts was instant police action and
shoving the out the door to be dealt with by the cops.
Unfortunately from Royal Commission evidence that didn't always happen
and they are paying for it now. Unfortunately unlike the RCC they aren't
stinky wealthy and there assets are in things used by the kids in the
organization afaik. Haven't had anything to do with them for 40 years
Fran
2020-03-08 04:25:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
  If they are guilty.  And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
I think that is closer to it than with the Catholic Church.  The
Catholic Church just put its fingers in it's collective ears and sang
La la la la as it transferred its paedophiles to a new location.  The
only responses I've heard of with the scouts was instant police action
and shoving the out the door to be dealt with by the cops.
Unfortunately from Royal Commission evidence that didn't always happen
and they are paying for it now.
Probably not but it certainly did in the cases I've heard of. Mind you,
that is not a huge number of cases.

Unfortunately unlike the RCC they aren't
Post by Dechucka
stinky wealthy and there assets are in things used by the kids in the
organization afaik. Haven't had anything to do with them for 40 years
The being "stinky wealthy" is the very reason why the Catholic church
stuck collective fingers in ears - all about protecting its assets.
Patrick B
2020-03-08 12:10:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fran
I think that is closer to it than with the Catholic Church. The
Catholic Church just put its fingers in it's collective ears and sang La
la la la as it transferred its paedophiles to a new location. The only
responses I've heard of with the scouts was instant police action and
shoving the out the door to be dealt with by the cops.
Actions by the Vatican - taken to stop the abuse crisis…..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Catholic bishops in the 50's and 60's viewed sexual abuse by priests
as "a spiritual problem, one requiring a spiritual solution, i.e.
prayer". However, starting in the sixties, the bishops came to adopt
an emerging view based on the advice of medical personnel who
recommended psychiatric and psychological treatment for those who
sexually abused minors. This view asserted that, with proper
treatment, priests who had molested children could safely be placed
back into ministry. This approach viewed pedophilia as an addiction,
such as alcoholism which many feel cannot be cured but which can be
treated and restrained.
In 1962, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, Secretary of the Sacred
Congregation of the Holy Office, sent a letter which became known as
the Crimen sollicitationis. In this letter, the Holy Office laid down
procedures to be followed in dealing with cases of clerics (priests or
bishops) of the Roman Catholic Church accused of having used the
sacrament of Penance to make sexual advances to penitents. In
addition, it reiterated the seriousness and gravity of ever breaking
the seal of confession.
In 1983, the Vatican promulgated a revised Code of Canon Law which
included a canon (1395, 2) which explicitly named sex with a minor by
clerics as a canonical crime.
The burgeoning number of scandals evoked deep concern among some
Catholic observers, and in 1985 a confidential report entitled "The
Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy: Meeting the
Problem in a Comprehensive and Responsible Matter" was submitted to
the Catholic hierarchy. The authors included Gauthe's attorney, F. Ray
Mouton, and two clerics [priests], Thomas P. Doyle and Michael
Peterson.... The group warned of the need to take urgent action in the
face of scandals, to react swiftly to complaints, and also to avoid
charges of secretive proceedings or cover-ups. (p. 37) Tragically,
either this advice was not followed, or not followed often enough.
This approach continued to be practiced by the bishops well into the
mid-1980s, a period which characterizes as the "tipping point in the
understanding of the problem within the church and in society".
Pope John Paul II took a number of steps to address the problem of
priestly formation. On March 25, 1992, he completed the apostolic
exhortation Pastores Dabo Vobis ("I Shall Give You Shepherds"), one of
the longest papal documents in history. This explored the crisis of
priestly identity, the renewal of priestly life and the reform of
seminaries in detail. Some have attributed the scant number of abuse
allegations from the 1990s as evidence that the late Pope's reform
efforts were fruitful.
In April 2001, Pope John Paul II issued Sacramentorum sanctitatis
tutela (Safeguarding the Sanctity of the Sacraments). This replaced
the Crimen sollicitationis. All priestly sex crimes cases were to be
placed under the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
which, in most cases, would authorize the bishops to conduct trials
themselves. In May 2001, a letter from the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith, in line with the 1983 Code of Canon Law and the
1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, was sent to the Catholic
bishops.
Pope John Paul II declared in 2003 that "there is no place in the
priesthood and religious life for those who would harm the young".
With the approval of the Vatican, the hierarchy of the church in the
United States instituted reforms to prevent future abuse including
requiring background checks for Church employees and volunteers and,
noting the preponderance of adolescent males (teenage boys) amongst
victims of abuse, warned that a more searching inquiry is necessary
for a homosexually oriented man; and the worldwide Church also
prohibited the ordination of men with "deep-seated homosexual
tendencies."
Early in 2010 Cardinal Claudio Hummes, the head of the Congregation
for Clergy, said that instances of sexual abuse by priests were
"criminal facts" as well as serious sins and required co-operation
with the civil justice system
The Pope took the extraordinary steps of ordering the retirement of
Cardinal Bernard Law Archbishop John Aloysius Ward, the most senior
member of the Roman Catholic Church in Wales, in the wake of a
paedophile scandal which rocked their dioceses to its foundations. The
72-year-old archbishop Ward, who had been under severe criticism from
clergy and congregations following the convictions of two priests for
child sexual abuse offences, was forced to resign despite making clear
his determination to stay in office. He had been accused of repeatedly
ignoring warnings about the two priests' conduct.

Patrick B
2020-03-08 12:06:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Wonder if PatDick will defend him if he's found guilty. Interestingly
"Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy As It Faces Hundreds Of
Sex-Abuse Claims" another organization that, like the RCC, covered up
and protected abusers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-05/former-scout-leader-on-child-
sex-charges/12030010
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
A former Sydney Scout leader charged with child sex offences admitted
to police he watched pornographic videos with young boys at his house,
a court has heard.
The "scouts" have had this problem of child abuse for decades. Just as
the RCC has had evil priests for decades.
All child abusers should be punished to the furthest extent of the law.
If they are guilty. And if they are given fair trials.
The problem with the Scouts, as with the RCC, is not that they had
pedophiles in their ranks rather it is that they covered up the abuse.
Not sure the Scouts went as far as letting the abusers keep abusing by
transferring them but they may have.
IMO, they did neither.
When ever there was a wiff, the person was out asap.
The problem is, as always, getting that wiff.
The current one seems to have left no wiff until very recently.
What really pissed me off with the Aust Scout head guy was the modern
denigration, 'well that was the old days'. It wasn't
The problem is that Scouts Australia is a really the umbrella for a
collection of state based bodies and leader training and records are not
centralised. IME, leader record keeping was atrocious as the inputs were
really locally organised by volunteers. And that is the ky why certain
local areas might be on the ball to intercept pedo's and other were
struggling.
''
I agree.
And, ... just liike the RCC, who could have predicted that some men
would take the opportunity to abuse children after they had been given
the trust of innocent children.
Who could have predicted this?
Certainly not men who are honest, full of integrity, and desire God.
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