Discussion:
A major issue facing public health and Nicola Roxon is asleep at the wheel
(too old to reply)
B J Foster
2011-04-21 23:04:40 UTC
Permalink
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.

A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals.
...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile in
hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the doctors
I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with these superbug
versions are far sicker and far more difficult to treat', she said.

'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm

A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working? But the Labor gubbermint is apparently doing
nothing about this.
regn.pickford
2011-04-22 02:30:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says
it will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of
deaths overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many
hospitals. ...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile
in hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the
doctors I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with
these superbug versions are far sicker and far more difficult to
treat', she said.
'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working?
They bring out the maggots and bone saws

But the Labor gubbermint is apparently
Post by B J Foster
doing nothing about this.
They're safe. They can blame the doctors for overprescribing antibiotics.
DM
2011-04-22 03:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals.
        ...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile in
hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the doctors
I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with these superbug
versions are far sicker and far more difficult to treat', she said.
'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
        ...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working? But the Labor gubbermint is apparently doing
nothing about this.
Really? 30 seconds of web research discovers otherwise:

In 1999, the Joint Expert Technical Advisory Committee on Antibiotic
Resistance (JETACAR) reported that current levels of antibiotic
prescribing raise serious concerns about the indiscriminate use of
these agents — particularly in the primary health care setting — and
subsequent risks of emerging bacterial resistance.1

It is now accepted that there is minimal benefit of treating patients
with self-limiting conditions such as sore throats, sinusitis, acute
bronchitis and acute otitis media, and no demonstrated need for
antibiotic treatment of uncomplicated upper respiratory tract
infections (URTIs).2 Antibiotics can cause side-effects, and
prescribing them reinforces patients’ belief that antibiotics are
necessary.2

Prescribing antibiotics has been identified as one of the most
uncomfortable prescribing decisions made by doctors in general
practice.3 Doctors’ perceptions of patient pressure and diagnostic
uncertainty contribute greatly to the decision-making process.4,5

A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10

For information about this topic without political hype, see:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/what_to_do.htm

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-22 10:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals.
...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile in
hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the doctors
I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with these superbug
versions are far sicker and far more difficult to treat', she said.
'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working? But the Labor gubbermint is apparently doing
nothing about this.
Really? A *comprehensive* search of alp.org.au shows *no* specific
policies in this area.

Here, see for yourself:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=jetacar+site:alp.org.au
What can be found is a ramping up of spend on *hospitals*, i.e. symptoms
and nothing at all on *prevention*.

A search for antibiotics reveals two pages:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=antibiotics+site:alp.org.au

Neither dealing with the problem.
Post by DM
In 1999, the Joint Expert Technical Advisory Committee on Antibiotic
Resistance (JETACAR) reported that current levels of antibiotic
prescribing raise serious concerns about the indiscriminate use of
these agents — particularly in the primary health care setting — and
subsequent risks of emerging bacterial resistance.1
Yup. Coalition government problem recognition. What has been done since
2007?

The ALP has a singular Gillard-driven focus on taking over *hospitals*
in a climate of increasing costs. Fat lot of good federal control of
hospitals will do when transplants, for instance, become impossible.
Post by DM
It is now accepted that there is minimal benefit of treating patients
with self-limiting conditions such as sore throats, sinusitis, acute
bronchitis and acute otitis media, and no demonstrated need for
antibiotic treatment of uncomplicated upper respiratory tract
infections (URTIs).2 Antibiotics can cause side-effects, and
prescribing them reinforces patients’ belief that antibiotics are
necessary.2
$20b on hospitals. What was spent on prevention? Impossible to tell
because the Dept of Health doesn't break down its budget that way.

But as an indication, we find under 'Connecting Health'
"A $35 million fund to support training and supervision for health
professionals using online technologies".

ROTFL. $43,000m to build infrastructure. $35m to make it useful. The
price of a document from one of Labor's pet consultants.
Post by DM
Prescribing antibiotics has been identified as one of the most
uncomfortable prescribing decisions made by doctors in general
practice.3 Doctors’ perceptions of patient pressure and diagnostic
uncertainty contribute greatly to the decision-making process.4,5
A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/what_to_do.htm
DM
Thank you ABC!
No thanks, ALP!
DM
2011-04-22 13:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals.
         ...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile in
hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the doctors
I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with these superbug
versions are far sicker and far more difficult to treat', she said.
'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
         ...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working? But the Labor gubbermint is apparently doing
nothing about this.
Really? A *comprehensive* search of alp.org.au shows *no* specific
policies in this area.
Since the solution was identified in 1999 and the recommendations put
into practice, why would the ALP need such a policy?
Post by B J Foster
Here, see for yourself:http://www.google.com.au/search?q=jetacar+site:alp.org.au
What can be found is a ramping up of spend on *hospitals*, i.e. symptoms
and nothing at all on *prevention*.
A search for antibiotics reveals two pages:http://www.google.com.au/search?q=antibiotics+site:alp.org.au
Neither dealing with the problem.
Post by DM
In 1999, the Joint Expert Technical Advisory Committee on Antibiotic
Resistance (JETACAR) reported that current levels of antibiotic
prescribing raise serious concerns about the indiscriminate use of
these agents — particularly in the primary health care setting — and
subsequent risks of emerging bacterial resistance.1
Yup. Coalition government problem recognition. What has been done since
2007?
You seem to have clipped that bit:

"A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10 "
Post by B J Foster
The ALP has a singular Gillard-driven focus on taking over *hospitals*
in a climate of increasing costs. Fat lot of good federal control of
hospitals will do when transplants, for instance, become impossible.
I think you might be confusing antibiotics and antiseptics. Proper
hygiene and the use of appropriate antiseptics can kill anything. The
problem with "superbugs" and antibiotic resistance occurs once they
have infected a person. Considering the cost of transplant surgery, it
isn't that great a change to ensure everything that comes in contact
with the patient is sterile and disposable. In a worst case scenario
that might be necessary, but until then proper attention to hygiene
and sterile procedure should be sufficient. Its surprising how often
poorly trained staff compromise this, so better training at all levels
is probably part of the answer too.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
It is now accepted that there is minimal benefit of treating patients
with self-limiting conditions such as sore throats, sinusitis, acute
bronchitis and acute otitis media, and no demonstrated need for
antibiotic treatment of uncomplicated upper respiratory tract
infections (URTIs).2 Antibiotics can cause side-effects, and
prescribing them reinforces patients’ belief that antibiotics are
necessary.2
$20b on hospitals. What was spent on prevention? Impossible to tell
because the Dept of Health doesn't break down its budget that way.
If you really want to know about preventative health, look at:
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/

A couple of numbers to get you started though:
National Partnership Agreement on Preventive Health ($872.1 million)
and
social marketing for tobacco (over $100 million for Indigenous
smoking).
Post by B J Foster
But as an indication, we find under 'Connecting Health'
"A $35 million fund to support training and supervision for health
professionals using online technologies".
ROTFL. $43,000m to build infrastructure. $35m to make it useful. The
price of a document from one of Labor's pet consultants.
You don't think infrastructure is needed to provide quality on-line
training?
What planet do you live on?

Oh, I forgot, you think our current broadband is adequate.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Prescribing antibiotics has been identified as one of the most
uncomfortable prescribing decisions made by doctors in general
practice.3 Doctors’ perceptions of patient pressure and diagnostic
uncertainty contribute greatly to the decision-making process.4,5
A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/what_to_do.htm
DM
Thank you ABC!
No thanks, ALP!
When I worked for the Libs we used to call it the ALPBC.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-22 20:17:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
surveillance in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals.
...
'We've detected these new superbug versions of Clostridium difficile in
hospitals in Melbourne and Sydney, and anecdotally at least the doctors
I speak to tell me the patients that have infections with these superbug
versions are far sicker and far more difficult to treat', she said.
'The other thing about these versions of these bacteria is that they
hang around the hospital environment much better'.
...
Dr Lyras says the bug is much harder to control once it is in the
general community. She says overseas there have been cases found in
children, pregnant women and among the elderly".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
A whole new approach to public health is required. What happens when
anti-biotics stop working? But the Labor gubbermint is apparently doing
nothing about this.
Really? A *comprehensive* search of alp.org.au shows *no* specific
policies in this area.
Since the solution was identified in 1999 and the recommendations put
into practice, why would the ALP need such a policy?
I told you that "A whole new approach to public health is required"

I even described the key risk: "What happens when anti-biotics stop
working?"

You responded with this?
"Really? 30 seconds of web research discovers otherwise:"
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Here, see for yourself:http://www.google.com.au/search?q=jetacar+site:alp.org.au
What can be found is a ramping up of spend on *hospitals*, i.e. symptoms
and nothing at all on *prevention*.
A search for antibiotics reveals two pages:http://www.google.com.au/search?q=antibiotics+site:alp.org.au
Neither dealing with the problem.
You quoted a Coalition-era strategy.

Reminder: "A whole new approach to public health is required"

Which was irrelevant to the new risk:
"A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the *biggest* *infection* *risk in many hospitals".

Maybe you can explain how 'educating parents' will reduce INFECTION RISK
IN HOSPITALS.
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
In 1999, the Joint Expert Technical Advisory Committee on Antibiotic
Resistance (JETACAR) reported that current levels of antibiotic
prescribing raise serious concerns about the indiscriminate use of
these agents — particularly in the primary health care setting — and
subsequent risks of emerging bacterial resistance.1
Yup. Coalition government problem recognition. What has been done since
2007?
Because it is totally irrelevant.

1. That strategy has failed, clearly, because Clostridium difficile is
now *here* in Australia in *our* hospitals

2. Educating parents will not reduce INFECTION RISK IN HOSPITALS.

3. Neither will it reduce INFECTION RISK in the home, and the bacteria
is now OUTSIDE HOSPITALS too.

Since it is not working:
4. "A whole new approach is required"
Post by DM
"A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10 "
(Yawn)
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
The ALP has a singular Gillard-driven focus on taking over *hospitals*
in a climate of increasing costs. Fat lot of good federal control of
hospitals will do when transplants, for instance, become impossible.
I think you might be confusing antibiotics and antiseptics.
I think you should read the question next time. Idiot.
Post by DM
Proper
hygiene and the use of appropriate antiseptics can kill anything. The
problem with "superbugs" and antibiotic resistance occurs once they
have infected a person. Considering the cost of transplant surgery, it
isn't that great a change to ensure everything that comes in contact
with the patient is sterile and disposable. In a worst case scenario
that might be necessary, but until then proper attention to hygiene
and sterile procedure should be sufficient. Its surprising how often
poorly trained staff compromise this, so better training at all levels
is probably part of the answer too.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
It is now accepted that there is minimal benefit of treating patients
with self-limiting conditions such as sore throats, sinusitis, acute
bronchitis and acute otitis media, and no demonstrated need for
antibiotic treatment of uncomplicated upper respiratory tract
infections (URTIs).2 Antibiotics can cause side-effects, and
prescribing them reinforces patients’ belief that antibiotics are
necessary.2
$20b on hospitals. What was spent on prevention? Impossible to tell
because the Dept of Health doesn't break down its budget that way.
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/
National Partnership Agreement on Preventive Health ($872.1 million)
and
social marketing for tobacco (over $100 million for Indigenous
smoking).
Post by B J Foster
But as an indication, we find under 'Connecting Health'
"A $35 million fund to support training and supervision for health
professionals using online technologies".
ROTFL. $43,000m to build infrastructure. $35m to make it useful. The
price of a document from one of Labor's pet consultants.
You don't think infrastructure is needed to provide quality on-line
training?
What planet do you live on?
Oh, I forgot, you think our current broadband is adequate.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Prescribing antibiotics has been identified as one of the most
uncomfortable prescribing decisions made by doctors in general
practice.3 Doctors’ perceptions of patient pressure and diagnostic
uncertainty contribute greatly to the decision-making process.4,5
A range of evidence-based strategies have been shown to significantly
reduce the unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. “Educational
marketing” techniques directed towards health care professionals,6,7
the use of scoring systems by general practitioners,8 patient
information leaflets and delayed prescriptions9 have all been shown to
optimise antibiotic prescribing in primary health care. Parent
education has been considered the single most important element in
reducing oral antibiotic overuse in children.10
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/antibiotics/what_to_do.htm
DM
Thank you ABC!
No thanks, ALP!
When I worked for the Libs we used to call it the ALPBC.
DM
B J Foster
2011-04-22 21:00:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/
Why did you post this? It is even more damming of Labor/Roxon's inactivity.

Summary:
400 submissions

A handful of recommendations. Let's start with obesity:
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publishing.nsf/Content/6B7B17659424FBE5CA25772000095458/$File/obesity.pdf
"1.1 Establish a Prime Minister’s Council for Active Living"

*** Where is it?

"1.2 Develop a business case for a new COAG National Partnership
Agreement on Active Living".

*** Where is it?
Post by DM
National Partnership Agreement on Preventive Health ($872.1 million)
and
social marketing for tobacco (over $100 million for Indigenous
smoking).
All very well spending $872m but where is the business case? But on what?

There's no evidence that any of the recommendations are being followed.

From the roadmap:

"'Action currently under way does not adequately reflect the magnitude
of the problem. There is indeed a need for a greater sense of *urgency*'
(Quote from submission)"

"Tackling the growing personal, social and economic *burden* of chronic
illness is imperative, especially in a country with an ageing
population. Prevention is increasingly being seen as a crucial means of
reducing this burden".
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publishing.nsf/Content/nphs-roadmap-toc~nphs-roadmap-1~nphs-roadmap-1.1~nphs-roadmap-1.1.1

In posting the roadmap and recommendations of the taskforce, you have
shown that the situation is even worse than thought - Labor is *aware*
of the problem yet is doing *very* *little* about it.

Gillard's singular focus on taking over hospitals distracts from the
real *investment* needed in preventive health.

The only real, concrete action we have seen is an attempt to stamp out
smoking - and the outcome is that *more* kids are now taking up smoking.
https://groups.google.com/group/aus.politics/msg/01f2e799c51e80cb

Welcome to Labor's Australia:
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=kids+smoking
DM
2011-04-26 07:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/
Why did you post this? It is even more damming of Labor/Roxon's inactivity.
400 submissions
A handful of recommendations. Let's start with obesity:http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publ...
"1.1 Establish a Prime Minister’s Council for Active Living"
*** Where is it?
"1.2 Develop a business case for a new COAG National Partnership
Agreement on Active Living".
*** Where is it?
The time scale for that initiative was from 2010 to 2013.
How long do you think it takes to arrange a national partnership?
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
National Partnership Agreement on Preventive Health ($872.1 million)
and
social marketing for tobacco (over $100 million for Indigenous
smoking).
All very well spending $872m but where is the business case? But on what?
There's no evidence that any of the recommendations are being followed.
"'Action currently under way does not adequately reflect the magnitude
of the problem. There is indeed a need for a greater sense of *urgency*'
(Quote from submission)"
"Tackling the growing personal, social and economic *burden* of chronic
illness is imperative, especially in a country with an ageing
population. Prevention is increasingly being seen as a crucial means of
reducing this burden".http://www.preventativehealth.org.au/internet/preventativehealth/publ...
In posting the roadmap and recommendations of the taskforce, you have
shown that the situation is even worse than thought - Labor is *aware*
of the problem yet is doing *very* *little* about it.
It may be worse than _you_ thought, but the report shows that the
government has taken the time to find out how bad the problem is and
solicit proposals about how it should be solved from a wide range of
contributors.
Post by B J Foster
Gillard's singular focus on taking over hospitals distracts from the
real *investment* needed in preventive health.
Since the research was commissioned and the proposals sought, your
claim that Gillard is singularly focused has been blown out of the
water. Your political heroes might not be able to walk and chew gum at
the same time but thats more of an indication they aren't worth voting
for yet than a slight on the Gillard government.
Post by B J Foster
The only real, concrete action we have seen is an attempt to stamp out
smoking -
Sounds like an excellent place to start to me.
Smoking is recognised as the 'largest single preventable cause of
death and disease in Australia' (AMA 2005).

and the outcome is that *more* kids are now taking up smoking.https://
groups.google.com/group/aus.politics/msg/01f2e799c51e80cb

Actually your source does not say this. Your source says that
"Although smoking rates have declined over recent decades, young
people were the most likely to have increased the amount they smoked
in the past year"

This does not mean more young people are taking up smoking. It means
the young people who do smoke are more likely to have increased the
_amount_ they smoked in the past year compared to other smokers.

This is a pretty obvious outcome when you think about it. It includes
a large number of respondents who began smoking in the last year!

According to the ABS 6.75% of 15-17 year olds smoked in 2008 and of
people who had ever smoked daily, 61% first took up the habit on a
daily basis when aged 15-19 years. About one in five (18%) of those
who had ever smoked daily had first started doing so under the age of
15 years.
Post by B J Foster
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/teenage-smoking-is-on-the-rise/story-e6frfkvr-1226036626698#ixzz1KbrpKpye
Welcome to Labor's Australia:http://www.google.com.au/search?q=kids+smoking
If you are so concerned about children smoking, why is it you have
been attacking government efforts to follow expert advice to reduce
the incidence of smoking?

You seem to be seriously conflicted on this issue. You want to put the
boot into Labor, and you say you are concerned about preventative
health care, yet you consistently oppose efforts to reduce what
experts say is the number one cause of preventable health problems.

In fact the government's plain packaging initiative has been endorsed
by the following organisations:

Action on Smoking and Health Australia
Alcohol and other Drugs Council of Australia
Association for the Wellbeing of Children in Healthcare
Association of Children's Welfare Agencies
Australian and New Zealand Society of Respiratory Science
Australian Childhood Foundation
Australian Council of Social Service
Australian Council of State School Organisations
Australian Council on Smoking and Health
Australian Education Union
Australian Foster Care Association
Australian General Practice Network
Australian Lions Drug Awareness Foundation
Australian Lung Foundation
Australian Medical Association (NSW)
Australian National Council on Drugs
Australian Parents' Council
Australian Youth Affairs Coalition
Baptist Union of NSW
Cancer Council Australia
Catholic Health Australia
Centre for Excellence in Indigenous Tobacco Control
Children’s Cancer Institute Australia for Medical Research
Cystic Fibrosis Australia
Early Childhood Australia
Families Australia
Heart Foundation
Murdoch Children’s Research Institute
National Association for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect
National Asthma Council Australia
NSW Council of Churches
Public Affairs Commission of the Anglican Church of Australia
Public Health Association of Australia
Royal Australasian College of Physicians
Royal Australian College of General Practitioners
Rural Doctors Association of Australia
Save the Children Australia
SIDS and Kids
Smarter than Smoking
Telethon Institute for Child Health Research
Thoracic Society of Australia and New Zealand

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-26 13:22:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
The *only* *real*, *concrete* *action* we have seen is an attempt to stamp out
Post by B J Foster
smoking -
...
Post by DM
You seem to be seriously conflicted on this issue. You want to put the
boot into Labor, and you say you are concerned about preventative
health care, yet you consistently *oppose* efforts to reduce what
experts say is the number one cause of preventable health problems.
(emphasis added to show up DM's attempt to twist and bias the original post)

The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the *only* action
that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on *prevention*.

Here is prevention:
Loading Image...

Commenting on Abbott's efforts to raise money for charity *and* keep fit
at the same time, all Nicola Roxon could manage was a low sarcastic
comment about his use of time.

It's about time that we had a health minister with a brain, one who can
identify ways to *invest* in health instead of slagging good role
models. The Health portfolio is starting to look like school laptops,
BER, asylum seekers, the NBN and carbon tax - another Labor stuff up.

Do some research & you will find that the best defence against
antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
DM
2011-04-26 15:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
The *only* *real*, *concrete* *action* we have seen is an attempt to stamp out
 smoking -
...
Post by DM
You seem to be seriously conflicted on this issue. You want to put the
boot into Labor, and you say you are concerned about preventative
health care, yet you consistently *oppose* efforts to reduce what
experts say is the number one cause of preventable health problems.
(emphasis added to show up DM's attempt to twist and bias the original post)
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the *only* action
that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on *prevention*.
Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike? Are you aware that Tony accepts
political donations from multinational tobacco companies? More than
$600,000 since 2003. What do you think Tony gives these companies in
return? Could be a bike isn't the only thing Tony peddles around
Canberra.
Post by B J Foster
Commenting on Abbott's efforts to raise money for charity *and* keep fit
at the same time, all Nicola Roxon could manage was a low sarcastic
comment about his use of time.
While Tony was peddling down the road, the government was, among other
things:

"Ninety four community sport and recreation organisations have been
funded to improve their sporting facilities
with a direct and tangible impact on increasing levels of
participation in sport and recreation at a community level.
The department worked with the four peak national recreation safety
organisations (Surf Life Saving Australia, the
Royal Life Saving Society Australia, AUSTSWIM and the Australian Ski
Patrol Association) to implement public
health education programs to improve health and safety in the water
and on the snow.
The department worked with water safety advocate Laurie Lawrence and
other water safety experts to develop
and distribute more than 600,000 DVDs on water safety for parents of
children under fi ve years old, exceeding
its target of 260,000 DVDs. This project has an emphasis on water
safety for children as well as highlighting the
benefi ts of engaging children in learn to swim activities.
The department continued to support the National Reclink initiative.
This initiative aims to increase the number
of Reclink sport and recreation programs, and activities and the
number of disadvantaged people accessing
these programs by 2010. In the six months to 31 December 2009, Reclink
Australia reported a total of 26,699
participants in its activities. This exceeded its national target by
270 per cent.
Arrangements underpinning the Australian Government’s support to the
Western Australian Government
in staging the 2011 World Sailing Championships were fi nalised in
January 2010. Among other things, the
championships are being used as a vehicle for promoting the
Government’s Healthy and Active Living messages."

Oh, did I see they funded Surf Lifesaving Australia?
They probably bought Tony's surf club speedos for him!
Post by B J Foster
It's about time that we had a health minister with a brain, one who can
identify ways to *invest* in health instead of slagging good role
models. The Health portfolio is starting to look like school laptops,
BER, asylum seekers, the NBN and carbon tax - another Labor stuff up.
Computers for students is rolling out quite nicely BJ, I have quite a
bit to do with it. Likewise BER. Nearly all the BER projects I've
helped with have delivered exactly what the school communities asked
for, and those that haven't will soon be corrected. But lets not pull
in any red herrings, eh? The topic is preventative health and smoking
is by far the biggest issue in this area.
Post by B J Foster
Do some research & you will find that the best defence against
antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.

Now I shouldn't really be doing your homework for you, but:

The Government has committed $4.5 million over five years from 2007-08
to 2011-12 to develop and distribute guidelines on healthy eating and
physical activity in early childhood settings. This forms part of the
Government’s Plan for Early Childhood and Plan for Tackling Obesity.

Oh, and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), in close
consultation with the Department of Health and Ageing, conducted the
Australian Health Survey—the most comprehensive study of the health of
Australians ever undertaken in March 2011.

I'm sure you can find more than I did in the past 60 seconds if you
really try!

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-26 21:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Do some research& you will find that the best defence against
Post by B J Foster
antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between antibiotics and
antiseptics.

Antibiotics are essential to perform transplants. The key issue is that
strains of bacteria are emerging (Clostridium difficile) that are immune
to antibiotics. This means that transplants will become impossible.
Because you're ignorant about the subject, like the Department of Health
under Labor, you don't understand the issue. If you don't understand the
issue, why are you debating it?
DM
2011-04-29 08:54:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Do some research&  you will find that the best defence against
 antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
 way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
 spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between antibiotics and
antiseptics.
Antibiotics are essential to perform transplants. The key issue is that
strains of bacteria are emerging (Clostridium difficile) that are immune
to antibiotics. This means that transplants will become impossible.
Because you're ignorant about the subject, like the Department of Health
under Labor, you don't understand the issue. If you don't understand the
issue, why are you debating it?
I think I might know a little about it. I was on a regional health
council in NSW for a few years and the topic came up more than once.

Antiseptics are the first line of defence against infection in
hospitals. Only when this has failed do patients become infected and
antibiotics come into play. Why do you think the doctor washes his
hands before picking up a scalpel, and why they cook the instruments
in hot steam before they touch a patient?

Unfortunately some staff can become complacent and antiseptic
procedure can suffer.
One of my friends complained about seeing a hospital cleaner using the
same cloth on the floor and the benches for instance. He got a dose of
golden staph that left him fighting for his life after a routine
procedure.

Antibiotic resistant bugs are nothing new, and neither are health
researchers trying to whip up public hysteria in order to secure more
research funding. All hospitals in Australia routinely screen for
microorganisms when the risk factors are considered sufficient. They
have been doing this since before 2006.

Your source is trying to play on public ignorance, it is true there is
no national system of screening in place, but every State has its own
program that has been working well for years.

I assume you are not an expert in the area. Do a bit of research
before you panic too much, and especially before you try to frighten
others.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-29 09:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Do some research& you will find that the best defence against
Post by B J Foster
antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between antibiotics and
antiseptics.
Antibiotics are essential to perform transplants. The key issue is that
strains of bacteria are emerging (Clostridium difficile) that are immune
to antibiotics. This means that transplants will become impossible.
Because you're ignorant about the subject, like the Department of Health
under Labor, you don't understand the issue. If you don't understand the
issue, why are you debating it?
I think I might know a little about it. I was on a regional health
council in NSW for a few years and the topic came up more than once.
Antiseptics are the first line of defence against infection in
hospitals. Only when this has failed do patients become infected and
antibiotics come into play. Why do you think the doctor washes his
hands before picking up a scalpel, and why they cook the instruments
in hot steam before they touch a patient?
Unfortunately some staff can become complacent and antiseptic
procedure can suffer.
One of my friends complained about seeing a hospital cleaner using the
same cloth on the floor and the benches for instance. He got a dose of
golden staph that left him fighting for his life after a routine
procedure.
Antibiotic resistant bugs are nothing new, and neither are health
researchers trying to whip up public hysteria in order to secure more
research funding. All hospitals in Australia routinely screen for
microorganisms when the risk factors are considered sufficient. They
have been doing this since before 2006.
I assume that you have a problem reading.

Here is the original report:

"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
*surveillance* in hospitals and nursing homes.

A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
Post by DM
Your source is trying to play on public ignorance, it is true there is
no national system of screening in place, but every State has its own
program that has been working well for years.
I assume you are not an expert in the area. Do a bit of research
before you panic too much, and especially before you try to frighten
others.
Rubbish. Read the report.
Post by DM
DM
DM
2011-04-30 00:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Do some research&    you will find that the best defence against
  antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
  way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
  spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between antibiotics and
antiseptics.
Antibiotics are essential to perform transplants. The key issue is that
strains of bacteria are emerging (Clostridium difficile) that are immune
to antibiotics. This means that transplants will become impossible.
Because you're ignorant about the subject, like the Department of Health
under Labor, you don't understand the issue. If you don't understand the
issue, why are you debating it?
I think I might know a little about it. I was on a regional health
council in NSW for a few years and the topic came up more than once.
Antiseptics are the first line of defence against infection in
hospitals. Only when this has failed do patients become infected and
antibiotics come into play. Why do you think the doctor washes his
hands before picking up a scalpel, and why they cook the instruments
in hot steam before they touch a patient?
Unfortunately some staff can become complacent and antiseptic
procedure can suffer.
One of my friends complained about seeing a hospital cleaner using the
same cloth on the floor and the benches for instance. He got a dose of
golden staph that left him fighting for his life after a routine
procedure.
Antibiotic resistant bugs are nothing new, and neither are health
researchers trying to whip up public hysteria in order to secure more
research funding. All hospitals in Australia routinely screen for
microorganisms when the risk factors are considered sufficient. They
have been doing this since before 2006.
I assume that you have a problem reading.
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
*surveillance* in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals".http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
Post by DM
Your source is trying to play on public ignorance, it is true there is
no national system of screening in place, but every State has its own
program that has been working well for years.
I assume you are not an expert in the area. Do a bit of research
before you panic too much, and especially before you try to frighten
others.
Rubbish. Read the report.
I did read the report, and I agree its rubbish.
Clostridium difficile has been a problem for several years, its not
something new. All Australian hospitals have had surveillance and
control procedures in place since at least 2009. The Australian
Infection Control Agency issued a position paper along with
surveillance and control guidelines lin May 2010. Your source either
didn't know this, or is pretending he didn't. Now that you know it,
perhaps your views about infection control in Australia might change.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-30 01:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Do some research& you will find that the best defence against
Post by B J Foster
antibiotic resistant bacteria is a healthy immune system - and the best
way to boost the immune system is exercise and diet. Health costs are
spiralling upward and Roxon is truly asleep at the wheel.
BJ, you were the one rabbitting on about antibiotic resistant bacteria
in Australian hospitals. I simply washed down your scare campaign
about transplant surgery being impossible with a little antiseptic
solution.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between antibiotics and
antiseptics.
Antibiotics are essential to perform transplants. The key issue is that
strains of bacteria are emerging (Clostridium difficile) that are immune
to antibiotics. This means that transplants will become impossible.
Because you're ignorant about the subject, like the Department of Health
under Labor, you don't understand the issue. If you don't understand the
issue, why are you debating it?
I think I might know a little about it. I was on a regional health
council in NSW for a few years and the topic came up more than once.
Antiseptics are the first line of defence against infection in
hospitals. Only when this has failed do patients become infected and
antibiotics come into play. Why do you think the doctor washes his
hands before picking up a scalpel, and why they cook the instruments
in hot steam before they touch a patient?
Unfortunately some staff can become complacent and antiseptic
procedure can suffer.
One of my friends complained about seeing a hospital cleaner using the
same cloth on the floor and the benches for instance. He got a dose of
golden staph that left him fighting for his life after a routine
procedure.
Antibiotic resistant bugs are nothing new, and neither are health
researchers trying to whip up public hysteria in order to secure more
research funding. All hospitals in Australia routinely screen for
microorganisms when the risk factors are considered sufficient. They
have been doing this since before 2006.
I assume that you have a problem reading.
"A microbiologist who is trying to combat a deadly new superbug says it
will not be possible to know how far it has spread without better
*surveillance* in hospitals and nursing homes.
A severe strain of Clostridium difficile has caused thousands of deaths
overseas and is now the biggest infection risk in many hospitals".http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/21/3198262.htm
Post by DM
Your source is trying to play on public ignorance, it is true there is
no national system of screening in place, but every State has its own
program that has been working well for years.
I assume you are not an expert in the area. Do a bit of research
before you panic too much, and especially before you try to frighten
others.
Rubbish. Read the report.
I did read the report, and I agree its rubbish.
Resorting to dishonest argument and cheap tricks again, a sign of a weak
position.
Post by DM
Clostridium difficile has been a problem for several years, its not
something new.
Garbage. The first cases was detected in Melbourne in 2009, the first in
Sydney only this year.

These were thought to be imported:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/12/2981578.htm
Post by DM
All Australian hospitals have had surveillance and
control procedures in place since at least 2009.
Once again, you didn't read properly:
"Monash University microbiologist Dr Dena Lyras says the bug entered
Australia *recently* but she worries the current surveillance system is
not good enough to track its spread".

What has changed is that the bacterium is now *here*, thus the risk has
increased. It is perfectly logical to call for increased surveillance.

You can call this 'rubbish' and bury your head in the sand like Nicola
Roxon our sleepy Labor Health Minister, or you can be more professional
and do what professionals do - measure the scale of the problem before
taking action.

The prospect of everyday bacteria becoming serious diseases once again
and potentially ruling out organ transplants is pretty serious, that's
why we need serious professionals in charge of public health not idiots
merely out to score cheap political points.
Post by DM
The Australian
Infection Control Agency issued a position paper along with
surveillance and control guidelines lin May 2010. Your source either
didn't know this, or is pretending he didn't. Now that you know it,
perhaps your views about infection control in Australia might change.
The article did not say that there was *no* surveilance in place, it
said that *more* surveillance was required (as the threat level had
increased). Try to read properly in future.
Post by DM
DM
B J Foster
2011-04-26 21:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
The*only* *real*,*concrete* *action* we have seen is an attempt to stamp out
Post by B J Foster
smoking -
...
Post by DM
You seem to be seriously conflicted on this issue. You want to put the
boot into Labor, and you say you are concerned about preventative
health care, yet you consistently*oppose* efforts to reduce what
experts say is the number one cause of preventable health problems.
(emphasis added to show up DM's attempt to twist and bias the original post)
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the*only* action
that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on*prevention*.
Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike?
Proof that you misrepresented what I said.
B J Foster
2011-04-26 21:18:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Are you aware that Tony accepts
political donations from multinational tobacco companies? More than
$600,000 since 2003. What do you think Tony gives these companies in
return? Could be a bike isn't the only thing Tony peddles around
Canberra.
Political donations to ALP by BATA and Phillip Morris:
1998-99 102,610
1999–00 69,815
2000–01 186,545
2001–02 135,250
2002–03 35,150
2003–04 36,990

Total: $566,360

If tobacco is so bad, why duzzent the silly Labor party *ban* it?

Bloody hypocrites.
DM
2011-04-29 08:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Are you aware that Tony accepts
political donations from multinational tobacco companies? More than
$600,000 since 2003. What do you think Tony gives these companies in
return? Could be a bike isn't the only thing Tony peddles around
Canberra.
1998-99   102,610
1999–00          69,815
2000–01          186,545
2001–02          135,250
2002–03           35,150
2003–04           36,990
Total:    $566,360
If tobacco is so bad, why duzzent the silly Labor party *ban* it?
Bloody hypocrites.
Source please?

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-29 09:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by DM
Are you aware that Tony accepts
political donations from multinational tobacco companies? More than
$600,000 since 2003. What do you think Tony gives these companies in
return? Could be a bike isn't the only thing Tony peddles around
Canberra.
1998-99 102,610
1999–00 69,815
2000–01 186,545
2001–02 135,250
2002–03 35,150
2003–04 36,990
Total: $566,360
If tobacco is so bad, why duzzent the silly Labor party *ban* it?
Bloody hypocrites.
Source please?
DM
Good idea. You first
B J Foster
2011-04-26 21:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
It's about time that we had a health minister with a brain, one who can
identify ways to*invest* in health instead of slagging good role
models. The Health portfolio is starting to look like school laptops,
BER, asylum seekers, the NBN and carbon tax - another Labor stuff up.
Computers for students is rolling out quite nicely BJ, I have quite a
bit to do with it.
Then you'd be aware that the funding of $807m (enough for an expensive
laptop) was insufficient to do the job - and state governments are
saddled with 'unforeseen' implementation and lifetime costs:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/computers-for-schools-stay-in-boxes/story-e6freo8c-1225698067067

'Unforeseen' only because this was Gillard's initiative. Did she really
think that a parachute drop of laptops onto state schools would result
in every child having a computer?

Does every child *need* a computer? Simple arithmetic says that if (say)
20% of lessons are computer based then only 20% of the number of
computers would be required.

And what about the broadband connections to every school - promised by
the end of 2011?
Post by DM
Likewise BER. Nearly all the BER projects I've
helped with have delivered exactly what the school communities asked
for, and those that haven't will soon be corrected.
Oh great, now we're supposed to rely on the "David Moss survey of BER
effectiveness".

In NSW and independent survey found that Labor spent twice as much as
they needed to.

No-one doubts the good intentions of Labor - it's just that they
shouldn't be left alone in charge of public finances.
Post by DM
But lets not pull
in any red herrings, eh? The topic is preventative health and smoking
is by far the biggest issue in this area.
Like sports safety programs?
DM
2011-04-29 09:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
It's about time that we had a health minister with a brain, one who can
 identify ways to*invest*  in health instead of slagging good role
 models. The Health portfolio is starting to look like school laptops,
 BER, asylum seekers, the NBN and carbon tax - another Labor stuff up.
Computers for students is rolling out quite nicely BJ, I have quite a
bit to do with it.
Then you'd be aware that the funding of $807m (enough for an expensive
laptop) was insufficient to do the job - and state governments are
saddled with 'unforeseen' implementation and lifetime costs:http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/computers-for-schools-stay-in-boxe...
'Unforeseen' only because this was Gillard's initiative. Did she really
think that a parachute drop of laptops onto state schools would result
in every child having a computer?
I consider the computers for students program's exposure of underlying
infrastructure problems to be a good thing, not a bad thing. Here in
Queensland we are in a far better position to deal with it than other
States because we identified the problem earlier and had already been
working to correct it.

BTW the program wasn't to be 1:1 across the board. It was 1:1 for year
9 and up. We officially maintain a 1:5 ratio below this.
Post by B J Foster
Does every child *need* a computer? Simple arithmetic says that if (say)
20% of lessons are computer based then only 20% of the number of
computers would be required.
Simple arithmetic like that is for simple people.
The world has changed dramatically over the past couple of decades.
Kids in primary school are now doing things they used to marvel about
in university computer science departments only a couple of decades
ago.
Post by B J Foster
And what about the broadband connections to every school - promised by
the end of 2011?
We have it, by Malcolm Turnbull's standards for broadband. Its not
good enough.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Likewise BER. Nearly all the BER projects I've
helped with have delivered exactly what the school communities asked
for, and those that haven't will soon be corrected.
Oh great, now we're supposed to rely on the "David Moss survey of BER
effectiveness".
The 40 or so schools I look after are very happy with the David Moss
survey, and how I deal with contractors who try to cut corners.
Post by B J Foster
In NSW and independent survey found that Labor spent twice as much as
they needed to.
Actually they found the standard required for schools was much higher
than that in the rest of the community. And with good reason.
Post by B J Foster
No-one doubts the good intentions of Labor - it's just that they
shouldn't be left alone in charge of public finances.
They aren't. They have old ex-Liberals like me looking over their
shoulders. Every government needs people like me (and probably you)
scrutinising their operations.
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
But lets not pull
in any red herrings, eh? The topic is preventative health and smoking
is by far the biggest issue in this area.
Like sports safety programs?
What part of "smoking is by far the biggest issue in this area" are
you having problems with?

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-29 09:59:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
And what about the broadband connections to every school - promised by
Post by B J Foster
the end of 2011?
We have it, by Malcolm Turnbull's standards for broadband. Its not
good enough.
Liar. Please cite where Turnbull said *schools* should use low bandwidth
connections.

Julia Gillard promised 100Mbps connections for schools by the end of
2011. What percentage of schools have it?

Another Labor stuff up.
DM
2011-04-30 00:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
And what about the broadband connections to every school - promised by
 the end of 2011?
We have it, by Malcolm Turnbull's standards for broadband. Its not
good enough.
Liar. Please cite where Turnbull said *schools* should use low bandwidth
connections.
Turnbull thinks wireless is good enough. I have schools already where
is isn't good enough.
Post by B J Foster
Julia Gillard promised 100Mbps connections for schools by the end of
2011.
Cite please?
B J Foster
2011-04-30 06:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
And what about the broadband connections to every school - promised by
Post by B J Foster
the end of 2011?
We have it, by Malcolm Turnbull's standards for broadband. Its not
good enough.
Liar. Please cite where Turnbull said *schools* should use low bandwidth
connections.
Turnbull thinks wireless is good enough. I have schools already where
is isn't good enough.
You're talking rubbish. Cite please.
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Julia Gillard promised 100Mbps connections for schools by the end of
2011.
Cite please?
You first
B J Foster
2011-04-29 10:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
In NSW and independent survey found that Labor spent twice as much as
Post by B J Foster
they needed to.
Actually they found the standard required for schools was much higher
than that in the rest of the community. And with good reason.
Liar. Unless you're quoting the *non* independent survey. Cite please.

The Catholic schools built better quality facilities for half the cost.
DM
2011-04-30 00:16:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
In NSW and independent survey found that Labor spent twice as much as
 they needed to.
Actually they found the standard required for schools was much higher
than that in the rest of the community. And with good reason.
Liar. Unless you're quoting the *non* independent survey. Cite please.
The Catholic schools built better quality facilities for half the cost.
Catholic schools do not have the same standards for infrastructure as
State schools.
You get what you pay for. And I make sure you do.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-30 09:42:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
In NSW and independent survey found that Labor spent twice as much as
Post by B J Foster
they needed to.
Actually they found the standard required for schools was much higher
than that in the rest of the community. And with good reason.
Liar. Unless you're quoting the *non* independent survey. Cite please.
The Catholic schools built better quality facilities for half the cost.
Catholic schools do not have the same standards for infrastructure as
State schools.
You get what you pay for. And I make sure you do.
DM
You make sure that I pay? Yes, I imagine so.

What part of "better quality" did you not understand.

B J Foster
2011-04-29 10:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
No-one doubts the good intentions of Labor - it's just that they
Post by B J Foster
shouldn't be left alone in charge of public finances.
They aren't. They have old ex-Liberals like me looking over their
shoulders. Every government needs people like me (and probably you)
scrutinising their operations.
So you think it's fine to hire incompetent money managers as long as you
have competent auditors? I completely disagree.
DM
2011-04-30 00:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
No-one doubts the good intentions of Labor - it's just that they
 shouldn't be left alone in charge of public finances.
They aren't. They have old ex-Liberals like me looking over their
shoulders. Every government needs people like me (and probably you)
scrutinising their operations.
So you think it's fine to hire incompetent money managers as long as you
have competent auditors? I completely disagree.
I think its naive to believe that just because you pay for something,
that is what you will get. It takes effort to make sure you get what
you pay for. Senior managers and politicians don't have the time or
expertise to do it, so they hire people like me. That costs money too,
but it saves money in the long run.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-29 10:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by DM
But lets not pull
Post by DM
in any red herrings, eh? The topic is preventative health and smoking
is by far the biggest issue in this area.
Like sports safety programs?
What part of "smoking is by far the biggest issue in this area" are
you having problems with?
If you don't like red herrings or if you think smoking is the priority,
then why did you bring in sports *safety* programs?
B J Foster
2011-04-26 21:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
The department worked with the four peak national recreation safety
organisations (Surf Life Saving Australia, the
Royal Life Saving Society Australia, AUSTSWIM and the Australian Ski
Patrol Association) to implement public
health education programs to improve health and safety in the water
and on the snow.
You forgot to mention *which* department. The last program to improve
"Water and alpine safety" ended in 2006. It has been relegated to the
archives:
http://www.archive.dcita.gov.au/2008/february/2005-2006_annual_report/section_2_performance_review/outcome_2/administered_items2

Feel free to find evidence that the Department of Health under *Labor*
is doing something about *prevention*:
http://www.health.gov.au/
Post by DM
The department worked with water safety advocate Laurie Lawrence and
other water safety experts to develop
and distribute more than 600,000 DVDs on water safety for parents of
children under fi ve years old, exceeding
its target of 260,000 DVDs. This project has an emphasis on water
safety for children as well as highlighting the
benefi ts of engaging children in learn to swim activities.
The department continued to support the National Reclink initiative.
This initiative aims to increase the number
of Reclink sport and recreation programs, and activities and the
number of disadvantaged people accessing
these programs by 2010. In the six months to 31 December 2009, Reclink
Australia reported a total of 26,699
participants in its activities. This exceeded its national target by
270 per cent.
Arrangements underpinning the Australian Government’s support to the
Western Australian Government
in staging the 2011 World Sailing Championships were fi nalised in
January 2010. Among other things, the
championships are being used as a vehicle for promoting the
Government’s Healthy and Active Living messages."
Oh, did I see they funded Surf Lifesaving Australia?
They probably bought Tony's surf club speedos for him!
Don't be absurd.

But an intelligent public health strategy *would* fund gym fees or
sports equipment or similar through tax breaks or similar because this
would be more than returned through lower public health costs.

But your dopey Labor party prefers to spend billions on symptoms rather
than millions (a mere $3.6m in the above program) on *prevention*.
DM
2011-04-30 00:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
The department worked with the four peak national recreation safety
organisations (Surf Life Saving Australia, the
Royal Life Saving Society Australia, AUSTSWIM and the Australian Ski
Patrol Association) to implement public
health education programs to improve health and safety in the water
and on the snow.
You forgot to mention *which* department. The last program to improve
"Water and alpine safety" ended in 2006. It has been relegated to the
archives:http://www.archive.dcita.gov.au/2008/february/2005-2006_annual_report...
Feel free to find evidence that the Department of Health under *Labor*
is doing something about *prevention*:http://www.health.gov.au/
OK:
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/programs-initiatives-all
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Oh, did I see they funded Surf Lifesaving Australia?
They probably bought Tony's surf club speedos for him!
Don't be absurd.
If Tony was telling the truth about wearing club speedos, and his club
was subsidised by the government, its not absurd to point out that his
speedos are being subsidised by the government.
Post by B J Foster
But an intelligent public health strategy *would* fund gym fees or
sports equipment or similar through tax breaks or similar because this
would be more than returned through lower public health costs.
What if reducing smoking provides a better return on investment?
Post by B J Foster
But your dopey Labor party prefers to spend billions on symptoms rather
than millions (a mere $3.6m in the above program) on *prevention*.
Since you know a bit about economics, can you tell me the effect a
subsidy on gym fees would have in a free market?

Incidentally the government subsidises health insurance, which in turn
subsidises gym fees.

You seem to be running out of steam BJ.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-28 11:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the*only* action
Post by B J Foster
that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on*prevention*.
Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x400.jpg
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike?
Yes, Tony riding a bike.
http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x400.jpg

This is what Wayne Swan had to say about it:
"I frankly have trouble understanding how he finds the time to do it.
Because these jobs are all-consuming, we are dealing with very important
issues and particularly in the last few years dealing with a global
recession and its impact on our economy. I can't understand how any
senior person in the Opposition can find the time to go off *surfing*
all of the time"

Surfing? If Mr Swan had a clue he'd know that exercising for an hour a
day would have *prevented* cancer.
http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/05/secret-swan-couldnt-keep.html

It's bad enough the Treasurer being clueless but when the Health
Minister is clueless about the benefits of daily exercise you come to
realise why public health costs are spiralling and 2/3 of Australians
are overweight:

Nicola Roxon:
"And it is a lot of time. I think it's a fair question to say: does that
amount of time actually have an impact on the lack of policy development
that we're seeing from the Opposition?"

"I would like to exercise more but then I'd have less time with my young
daughter. You know we all make choices about what we do in busy lives.
I'm certainly not going to pass any judgment about the choices that Tony
Abbott makes. And I do think it's good to have people setting an example."
http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/03/work-life-balance-ii-now-its-our-our.html

For example:
Loading Image...

All it needs is a little imagination. Non-existent in the ALP.
DM
2011-04-29 10:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the*only*  action
 that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
 taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
 hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on*prevention*.
 Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike?
Yes, Tony riding a bike.http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
"I frankly have trouble understanding how he finds the time to do it.
Because these jobs are all-consuming, we are dealing with very important
issues and particularly in the last few years dealing with a global
recession and its impact on our economy. I can't understand how any
senior person in the Opposition can find the time to go off *surfing*
all of the time"
Surfing? If Mr Swan had a clue he'd know that exercising for an hour a
day would have *prevented* cancer.http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/05/secret-swan-couldnt-keep.html
It's bad enough the Treasurer being clueless but when the Health
Minister is clueless about the benefits of daily exercise you come to
realise why public health costs are spiralling and 2/3 of Australians
"And it is a lot of time. I think it's a fair question to say: does that
amount of time actually have an impact on the lack of policy development
that we're seeing from the Opposition?"
"I would like to exercise more but then I'd have less time with my young
daughter. You know we all make choices about what we do in busy lives.
I'm certainly not going to pass any judgment about the choices that Tony
Abbott makes. And I do think it's good to have people setting an example."http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/03/work-life-balance-ii-now-its-ou...
For example:http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/08/28/1225767/205578-bridge...
All it needs is a little imagination. Non-existent in the ALP.
Actually its a serious question. Its not just a matter of nipping down
the beach before breakfast. How many taxpayers dollars are spent
getting Tony to and from his athletic photo opportunities, and how
much time does it all take up?

Its not a matter of being creative, the time simply doesn't exist at
that level for such time consuming leisure activities. There are only
24 hours in a day and a serious crack at the top job takes nearly all
of them.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-29 10:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by DM
Post by DM
Post by B J Foster
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the*only* action
Post by B J Foster
that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on*prevention*.
Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike?
Yes, Tony riding a bike.http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
"I frankly have trouble understanding how he finds the time to do it.
Because these jobs are all-consuming, we are dealing with very important
issues and particularly in the last few years dealing with a global
recession and its impact on our economy. I can't understand how any
senior person in the Opposition can find the time to go off *surfing*
all of the time"
Surfing? If Mr Swan had a clue he'd know that exercising for an hour a
day would have *prevented* cancer.http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/05/secret-swan-couldnt-keep.html
It's bad enough the Treasurer being clueless but when the Health
Minister is clueless about the benefits of daily exercise you come to
realise why public health costs are spiralling and 2/3 of Australians
"And it is a lot of time. I think it's a fair question to say: does that
amount of time actually have an impact on the lack of policy development
that we're seeing from the Opposition?"
"I would like to exercise more but then I'd have less time with my young
daughter. You know we all make choices about what we do in busy lives.
I'm certainly not going to pass any judgment about the choices that Tony
Abbott makes. And I do think it's good to have people setting an example."http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/03/work-life-balance-ii-now-its-ou...
For example:http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/08/28/1225767/205578-bridge...
All it needs is a little imagination. Non-existent in the ALP.
Actually its a serious question. Its not just a matter of nipping down
the beach before breakfast. How many taxpayers dollars are spent
getting Tony to and from his athletic photo opportunities, and how
much time does it all take up?
Its not a matter of being creative, the time simply doesn't exist at
that level for such time consuming leisure activities. There are only
24 hours in a day and a serious crack at the top job takes nearly all
of them.
DM
You're an idiot
DM
2011-04-29 23:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by DM
Post by DM
The criticism was that the campaign to end smoking was the*only*  action
  that has been taken in a hole range of actions recommended by the
  taskforce - and in a context of massive increases of spending on
  hospitals (symptoms) instead of spending on*prevention*.
  Here is prevention:http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
A photo of Tony Abbott riding a bike?
Yes, Tony riding a bike.http://images.theage.com.au/2010/03/29/1266714/abbott02_19226590-600x...
"I frankly have trouble understanding how he finds the time to do it.
Because these jobs are all-consuming, we are dealing with very important
issues and particularly in the last few years dealing with a global
recession and its impact on our economy. I can't understand how any
senior person in the Opposition can find the time to go off *surfing*
all of the time"
Surfing? If Mr Swan had a clue he'd know that exercising for an hour a
day would have *prevented* cancer.http://petermartin.blogspot.com/2009/05/secret-swan-couldnt-keep.html
It's bad enough the Treasurer being clueless but when the Health
Minister is clueless about the benefits of daily exercise you come to
realise why public health costs are spiralling and 2/3 of Australians
"And it is a lot of time. I think it's a fair question to say: does that
amount of time actually have an impact on the lack of policy development
that we're seeing from the Opposition?"
"I would like to exercise more but then I'd have less time with my young
daughter. You know we all make choices about what we do in busy lives.
I'm certainly not going to pass any judgment about the choices that Tony
Abbott makes. And I do think it's good to have people setting an example."http://www.petermartin.com.au/2010/03/work-life-balance-ii-now-its-ou...
For example:http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2009/08/28/1225767/205578-bridge...
All it needs is a little imagination. Non-existent in the ALP.
Actually its a serious question. Its not just a matter of nipping down
the beach before breakfast. How many taxpayers dollars are spent
getting Tony to and from his athletic photo opportunities, and how
much time does it all take up?
Its not a matter of being creative, the time simply doesn't exist at
that level for such time consuming leisure activities. There are only
24 hours in a day and a serious crack at the top job takes nearly all
of them.
DM
You're an idiot
Perhaps, but I did spend a few years working with someone who took a
serious crack at the top job.

DM
B J Foster
2011-04-24 22:00:43 UTC
Permalink
"It's just like climate change"
http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-killer-bug-could-beat-antibiotics-20110424-1dt2a.html
B J Foster
2011-04-28 23:00:38 UTC
Permalink
# 4100 new public beds added in past five years
# Admissions rise by 400,000 in same period

http://www.news.com.au/national/hospital-waiting-list-bedlam-as-patients-forced-to-go-private/story-e6frfkvr-1226046625316
DM
2011-04-29 10:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
# 4100 new public beds added in past five years
# Admissions rise by 400,000 in same period
http://www.news.com.au/national/hospital-waiting-list-bedlam-as-patie...
Sounds like a substantial increase in efficiency to me.
About time we got value for our tak dollars in health.

DM
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