Discussion:
Macquarioe Fields, the segment on 60 minutes
(too old to reply)
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-13 09:11:42 UTC
Permalink
I've just finished watching this segment with 2 of my children. I have
4.

Each child works, and 2 of them had to commute each day 80Km each way
to get to work when they first started.
They didn't wait for handouts, and they've never found it hard to
walk. In fact this evening, my youngest son will walk home from his
girlfriends house, or catch a bus. He doesn't think stealing a car is
a suitable alternative.

I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
up when they can afford such clothing.

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
BF
2005-03-13 09:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Wally Anglesea™ wrote:
Hard for me to believe they are hard
> up when they can afford such clothing.
>

probably nicked most of it.

but yeah, they could probably go without alot of luxuries.

the funniest bit was the interview with that woman's son, the one who
"refused to appear on camera" - more like "couldn't get arsed to get off
the bed!" LOL

I've worked with kids like this, they seem to think the world owes them
are living.
ferret
2005-03-13 09:36:26 UTC
Permalink
What I found a bit odd was:

Were like poor and that, so thats why the place is a pig sty.
Were all poor here and like, but we can all afford to get tattoos,
smoke and drink.

I looks more like, all those spray can kids grew up and lived
in the same area and started breeding.
thegoons
2005-03-13 15:46:32 UTC
Permalink
"ferret" <***@localhost.microsft.com> wrote in message
news:***@individual.net...
> What I found a bit odd was:
>
> Were like poor and that, so thats why the place is a pig sty.
> Were all poor here and like, but we can all afford to get tattoos,
> smoke and drink.
>
> I looks more like, all those spray can kids grew up and lived
> in the same area and started breeding.

Pit they can't build a fence around the suburb and transfer the land from
Housing Commission to Corrective Services Dept.
[]
2005-03-13 11:15:52 UTC
Permalink
I liked the ending where the kids made some comments to the police and said:

"Youse betta put that on da camera".
Mil80C
2005-03-13 12:00:35 UTC
Permalink
"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
> I've just finished watching this segment with 2 of my children. I have
> 4.
>
> Each child works, and 2 of them had to commute each day 80Km each way
> to get to work when they first started.
> They didn't wait for handouts, and they've never found it hard to
> walk. In fact this evening, my youngest son will walk home from his
> girlfriends house, or catch a bus. He doesn't think stealing a car is
> a suitable alternative.
>
> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
> up when they can afford such clothing.
>

I still like the bit where three of these low life scum steal a car, smash
it up and kill two of them, if we could keep that ratio going there will
soon not be a problem in Macquarie Fields at all

> --
>
> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>
> "You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Persifor
2005-03-13 21:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Mil80C <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >
>
> I still like the bit where three of these low life scum steal a car, smash
> it up and kill two of them, if we could keep that ratio going there will
> soon not be a problem in Macquarie Fields at all
>
I'll drink to that!
Chasing Kate
2005-03-13 15:24:19 UTC
Permalink
"Wally Anglesea™" wrote:

> I've just finished watching this segment with 2 of my children. I have
> 4.
>
> Each child works, and 2 of them had to commute each day 80Km each way
> to get to work when they first started.
> They didn't wait for handouts, and they've never found it hard to
> walk. In fact this evening, my youngest son will walk home from his
> girlfriends house, or catch a bus. He doesn't think stealing a car is
> a suitable alternative.
>
> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
> up when they can afford such clothing.



Purchased from the local Targét which I believe no longer has
checkouts but is self serve :)
marmot
2005-03-14 06:27:25 UTC
Permalink
Chasing Kate <***@internode.on.net> wrote in message news:<***@internode.on.net>...
> "Wally Anglesea?" wrote:
>
> > I've just finished watching this segment with 2 of my children. I have
> > 4.
> >
> > Each child works, and 2 of them had to commute each day 80Km each way
> > to get to work when they first started.
> > They didn't wait for handouts, and they've never found it hard to
> > walk. In fact this evening, my youngest son will walk home from his
> > girlfriends house, or catch a bus. He doesn't think stealing a car is
> > a suitable alternative.
> >
> > I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
> > that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
> > their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
> > up when they can afford such clothing.
>
>
>
> Purchased from the local Targét which I believe no longer has
> checkouts but is self serve :)


ha ha ha ha LOL.
Horace Wachope
2005-03-14 07:05:31 UTC
Permalink
On 13 Mar 2005 22:27:25 -0800, ***@hotmail.com (marmot) wrote:

>Chasing Kate <***@internode.on.net> wrote in message news:<***@internode.on.net>...
>> "Wally Anglesea?" wrote:
>>
>> > I've just finished watching this segment with 2 of my children. I have
>> > 4.
>> >
>> > Each child works, and 2 of them had to commute each day 80Km each way
>> > to get to work when they first started.
>> > They didn't wait for handouts, and they've never found it hard to
>> > walk. In fact this evening, my youngest son will walk home from his
>> > girlfriends house, or catch a bus. He doesn't think stealing a car is
>> > a suitable alternative.
>> >
>> > I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
>> > that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
>> > their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
>> > up when they can afford such clothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Purchased from the local Targét which I believe no longer has
>> checkouts but is self serve :)
>
>
>ha ha ha ha LOL.

Please don't feed the troll.
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 00:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:

<snip>


Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm


What's your interest in this ? Did you escape the cult or something ?
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 02:34:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>
>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>
>
>What's your interest in this ?

I like to help people caught up in it.

>Did you escape the cult or something ?

No.

Do you think I should just let him get away with it?


--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
fasgnâ (fasgnâdh)
2005-03-14 11:37:06 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
<***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
<***@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>
>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>
>>
>>What's your interest in this ?
>
>I like to help people caught up in it.

I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
activities of these "fake" catholics.

>
>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>
>No.

Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
much.

>
>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?

Get away with what? Child abuse?

So is it only True Catholics (like you) that should be able to "get
away with it"?

There's a self-admitted child abuse enabler, a regular poster to
aus.politics, who may be able to add some perspective to this.

He will be arriving shortly to contribute to this thread.

--

Multiculturalism is good for you.

Moslems detest multiculturalism, they want the whole
planet to be just one culture and one religion.

Please support multiculturalism.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 11:51:43 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:06 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
><***@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>What's your interest in this ?
>>
>>I like to help people caught up in it.
>
>I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
>"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
>"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
>activities of these "fake" catholics.

You could not be more wrong, and you are *evidently* an idiot for
drawing that conclusion.

>
>>
>>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>
>>No.
>
>Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>much.

Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
your foot into your mouth.


>
>>
>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>
>Get away with what? Child abuse?

Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
cult

OK?

I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or come
July I'll rub your face in it.


--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
fasgnâ (fasgnâdh)
2005-03-14 13:08:01 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:51:43 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
<***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
<***@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:06 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>><***@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What's your interest in this ?
>>>
>>>I like to help people caught up in it.
>>
>>I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
>>"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
>>"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
>>activities of these "fake" catholics.
>
>You could not be more wrong, and you are *evidently* an idiot for
>drawing that conclusion.

Ah. Ad hom insults. I have certainly touched a nerve here. Looks like
I'm on the right track... maybe just need to fill in more details...
>
>>
>>>
>>>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>
>>>No.
>>
>>Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>much.
>
>Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>your foot into your mouth.

Yep, more ad hom... and a denial of the obvious, viz, the blatant
hatred you have for this splinter group and its spiritual leader.
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>
>>Get away with what? Child abuse?
>
>Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault.

Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.

In view of the fact that this man is due to face the court, your
defamatory website therefore is at best superfluous, and at worst...
Well, perhaps I'll leave you to contemplate that.

>No
>allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>cult

Your defamatory website nevertheless lists some very serious
allegations.

>
>OK?
>
>I can't discuss the matter,

Apart from using your website to defame a man who has not been found
guilty of anything in a court of law?

>and you might just want to shut up

Perhaps you should take your own advice?

>or come
>July I'll rub your face in it.

Already found him guilty, have you?

Just what illegal activity is it that you fear the justice system
allows this this man to "get away with"?

--

Multiculturalism is good for you.

Moslems detest multiculturalism, they want the whole
planet to be just one culture and one religion.

Please support multiculturalism.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 20:43:51 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:08:01 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:51:43 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
><***@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:06 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>>><***@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What's your interest in this ?
>>>>
>>>>I like to help people caught up in it.
>>>
>>>I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
>>>"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
>>>"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
>>>activities of these "fake" catholics.
>>
>>You could not be more wrong, and you are *evidently* an idiot for
>>drawing that conclusion.
>
>Ah. Ad hom insults. I have certainly touched a nerve here. Looks like
>I'm on the right track... maybe just need to fill in more details...

Nope. Not an ad-hom. I like to call a spade a spade.

>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>
>>>>No.
>>>
>>>Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>>catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>>much.
>>
>>Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>>your foot into your mouth.
>
>Yep, more ad hom... and a denial of the obvious, viz, the blatant
>hatred you have for this splinter group and its spiritual leader.

Nope. I don't hate the group. Hate is far too strong a word for the
leader.

>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>
>>>Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>
>>Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>>leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault.
>
>Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
>quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
>website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.

Ahhh, defamation. You actually don't know the laws do you?

You see, truth is NOT a de fence in a libel or defamation action in
the courts of NSW. However, here's my webpage, up, and informing
people, and having people contact me for help an information, and in
the state of NSW as well. Most things on it are from his own
publications. You might want to think on that.

By the way, since when did a 3 line sig constitute spam? I see that
you don't understand usenet, either.
>
>In view of the fact that this man is due to face the court, your
>defamatory website therefore is at best superfluous, and at worst...
>Well, perhaps I'll leave you to contemplate that.

I'll help those who have left the cult, and those who have family
members in any way I see fit. Unlike you, I don't complain about
what's wrong with the world, I actually *DO* something about it.


>
>>No
>>allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>>cult
>
>Your defamatory website nevertheless lists some very serious
>allegations.


Yep. I have a good lawyer.

>
>>
>>OK?
>>
>>I can't discuss the matter,
>
>Apart from using your website to defame a man who has not been found
>guilty of anything in a court of law?
>
>>and you might just want to shut up
>
>Perhaps you should take your own advice?
>
>>or come
>>July I'll rub your face in it.
>
>Already found him guilty, have you?

Nope. Just come July, I'll look forward to explaining to you why some
people actually *DO* something, whereas, some people (you in
particular) just whine.


>
>Just what illegal activity is it that you fear the justice system
>allows this this man to "get away with"?

Ahhhh, I'll just leave it till July.


--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
fasgnâ (fasgnâdh)
2005-03-15 11:01:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:43:51 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
<***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
<***@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:08:01 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:51:43 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>><***@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:06 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>>>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>>>><***@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What's your interest in this ?
>>>>>
>>>>>I like to help people caught up in it.
>>>>
>>>>I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
>>>>"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
>>>>"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
>>>>activities of these "fake" catholics.
>>>
>>>You could not be more wrong, and you are *evidently* an idiot for
>>>drawing that conclusion.
>>
>>Ah. Ad hom insults. I have certainly touched a nerve here. Looks like
>>I'm on the right track... maybe just need to fill in more details...
>
>Nope. Not an ad-hom. I like to call a spade a spade.

So why not the same or greater bitterness against the Catholic Church
proper? It's been proven that many catholic priests have done far
worse things than has the person who is the target of your hatred.
Furthermore, there was a concerted coverup campaign. Why no bitterness
about that?
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>>
>>>>>No.
>>>>
>>>>Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>>>catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>>>much.
>>>
>>>Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>>>your foot into your mouth.
>>
>>Yep, more ad hom... and a denial of the obvious, viz, the blatant
>>hatred you have for this splinter group and its spiritual leader.
>
>Nope. I don't hate the group. Hate is far too strong a word for the
>leader.

You don't hate this man, yet you go to the trouble of creating a
website whose sole purpose is to defame and discredit him. Yet you
claim not to hate him?

What is wrong with this picture?

>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>>
>>>>Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>>
>>>Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>>>leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault.
>>
>>Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
>>quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
>>website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.
>
>Ahhh, defamation. You actually don't know the laws do you?

And you do know the law? And yet you knowingly flout it? Welll... Just
above you speak knowledgeably about "spades"... You now seem to be
using one to dig yourself into a bit of a hole.

>
>You see, truth is NOT a de fence in a libel or defamation action in
>the courts of NSW. However, here's my webpage, up, and informing
>people, and having people contact me for help an information, and in
>the state of NSW as well. Most things on it are from his own
>publications. You might want to think on that.

"Most things"? Including his alleged (by you) desire and/or intention
to do a "WACO, JONESTOWN, HEAVENS GATE" on his followers? Where has he
ever expressed the desire or intention to do that? Or is this just
some hysterical fantasy of yours?

>
>By the way, since when did a 3 line sig constitute spam? I see that
>you don't understand usenet, either.
>>
>>In view of the fact that this man is due to face the court, your
>>defamatory website therefore is at best superfluous, and at worst...
>>Well, perhaps I'll leave you to contemplate that.
>
>I'll help those who have left the cult, and those who have family
>members in any way I see fit. Unlike you, I don't complain about
>what's wrong with the world, I actually *DO* something about it.

So how, exactly, do you "help" these poor souls? What are your
qualifications and credentials? Are you some quack self-made head
doctor practising without a license?

>
>
>>
>>>No
>>>allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>>>cult
>>
>>Your defamatory website nevertheless lists some very serious
>>allegations.
>
>
>Yep. I have a good lawyer.

You might need one...

Tell me, if this guy is found not guilty, will you apologize to him
and remove your website?


>>
>>>
>>>OK?
>>>
>>>I can't discuss the matter,
>>
>>Apart from using your website to defame a man who has not been found
>>guilty of anything in a court of law?
>>
>>>and you might just want to shut up
>>
>>Perhaps you should take your own advice?
>>
>>>or come
>>>July I'll rub your face in it.
>>
>>Already found him guilty, have you?
>
>Nope. Just come July, I'll look forward to explaining to you why some
>people actually *DO* something, whereas, some people (you in
>particular) just whine.

Yep, as I suspected, you've already found him guilty.

>
>
>>
>>Just what illegal activity is it that you fear the justice system
>>allows this this man to "get away with"?
>
>Ahhhh, I'll just leave it till July.

'Samatta? Getting cold feet? Or growing a brain, perhaps? Better late
than never. Maybe.
--

Multiculturalism is good for you.

Moslems detest multiculturalism, they want the whole
planet to be just one culture and one religion.

Please support multiculturalism.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-16 23:50:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:01:36 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:43:51 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
><***@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:08:01 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:51:43 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>>><***@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:37:06 GMT, fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
>>>>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>><***@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>>>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What's your interest in this ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I like to help people caught up in it.
>>>>>
>>>>>I see. So, you are a "real catholic" who is trying to "expose" this
>>>>>"cult" which is comprised of "fake" catholics, in order to protect the
>>>>>"real" catholics from the adverse publicity which may arise from the
>>>>>activities of these "fake" catholics.
>>>>
>>>>You could not be more wrong, and you are *evidently* an idiot for
>>>>drawing that conclusion.
>>>
>>>Ah. Ad hom insults. I have certainly touched a nerve here. Looks like
>>>I'm on the right track... maybe just need to fill in more details...
>>
>>Nope. Not an ad-hom. I like to call a spade a spade.
>
>So why not the same or greater bitterness against the Catholic Church
>proper? It's been proven that many catholic priests have done far
>worse things than has the person who is the target of your hatred.
>Furthermore, there was a concerted coverup campaign. Why no bitterness
>about that?

I can't change the Catholic Church, nor do I have any intention to do
so. I pick the cause I can do something about.

If you agree the Catholic church needs to be fixed, then why don't you
get off your arse and do something about it, instead of whining about
it?




>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>>>>catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>>>>much.
>>>>
>>>>Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>>>>your foot into your mouth.
>>>
>>>Yep, more ad hom... and a denial of the obvious, viz, the blatant
>>>hatred you have for this splinter group and its spiritual leader.
>>
>>Nope. I don't hate the group. Hate is far too strong a word for the
>>leader.
>
>You don't hate this man, yet you go to the trouble of creating a
>website whose sole purpose is to defame and discredit him. Yet you
>claim not to hate him?
>
>What is wrong with this picture?

Nothing. The truth isn't defamation. As I said though, Truth isn't a
legal defence in a libel action. Something else is though.


>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>>>
>>>>>Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>>>
>>>>Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>>>>leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault.
>>>
>>>Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
>>>quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
>>>website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.
>>
>>Ahhh, defamation. You actually don't know the laws do you?
>
>And you do know the law? And yet you knowingly flout it?

I don't flout the law. Truth isn't a defence in a defamation action.
There's no law broken.


>Welll... Just
>above you speak knowledgeably about "spades"... You now seem to be
>using one to dig yourself into a bit of a hole.

You can think it if you want, or you can quit while you are behind.



>
>>
>>You see, truth is NOT a de fence in a libel or defamation action in
>>the courts of NSW. However, here's my webpage, up, and informing
>>people, and having people contact me for help an information, and in
>>the state of NSW as well. Most things on it are from his own
>>publications. You might want to think on that.
>
>"Most things"? Including his alleged (by you) desire and/or intention
>to do a "WACO, JONESTOWN, HEAVENS GATE" on his followers? Where has he
>ever expressed the desire or intention to do that? Or is this just
>some hysterical fantasy of yours?

Nope. Out of context. No cult has ever expressed the desire to
martyrdom. He doesn't need to martyr his followers to be a problem.


>
>>
>>By the way, since when did a 3 line sig constitute spam? I see that
>>you don't understand usenet, either.
>>>
>>>In view of the fact that this man is due to face the court, your
>>>defamatory website therefore is at best superfluous, and at worst...
>>>Well, perhaps I'll leave you to contemplate that.
>>
>>I'll help those who have left the cult, and those who have family
>>members in any way I see fit. Unlike you, I don't complain about
>>what's wrong with the world, I actually *DO* something about it.
>
>So how, exactly, do you "help" these poor souls? What are your
>qualifications and credentials? Are you some quack self-made head
>doctor practising without a license?

Ahh. A request to authority. I don't need to justify myself to you.

I have the education, background, skills and contacts required to help
in the way that I do.


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>No
>>>>allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>>>>cult
>>>
>>>Your defamatory website nevertheless lists some very serious
>>>allegations.
>>
>>
>>Yep. I have a good lawyer.
>
>You might need one...

Always had one. That's why the webpage stays up.

>
>Tell me, if this guy is found not guilty, will you apologize to him
>and remove your website?

No, because My webpage does not discuss the current court case in any
way. He's not on trial for lying to his followers.

>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>OK?
>>>>
>>>>I can't discuss the matter,
>>>
>>>Apart from using your website to defame a man who has not been found
>>>guilty of anything in a court of law?
>>>
>>>>and you might just want to shut up
>>>
>>>Perhaps you should take your own advice?
>>>
>>>>or come
>>>>July I'll rub your face in it.
>>>
>>>Already found him guilty, have you?
>>
>>Nope. Just come July, I'll look forward to explaining to you why some
>>people actually *DO* something, whereas, some people (you in
>>particular) just whine.
>
>Yep, as I suspected, you've already found him guilty.

You *are* ignorant, aren't you?


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Just what illegal activity is it that you fear the justice system
>>>allows this this man to "get away with"?
>>
>>Ahhhh, I'll just leave it till July.
>
>'Samatta? Getting cold feet? Or growing a brain, perhaps? Better late
>than never. Maybe.

Nope. I'll can't discuss the case while it's before the court.

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Horace Wachope
2005-03-17 04:25:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:43:51 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
<***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:

>>Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
>>quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
>>website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.
>
>Ahhh, defamation. You actually don't know the laws do you?

Neither, it seems, do you.

>You see, truth is NOT a de fence in a libel or defamation action in
>the courts of NSW. However, here's my webpage, up, and informing
>people, and having people contact me for help an information, and in
>the state of NSW as well. Most things on it are from his own
>publications.

Why do you assume you'd be sued in a court in New South Wales? I'm in
South Australia, and I read it. Little Pebble might sue in the
District Court of SA.

> You might want to think on that.

You might want to seek legal advice.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-17 10:52:56 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:55:33 +1030, Horace Wachope
<***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:43:51 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:
>
>>>Precisely. This man has not yet had his day in court, yet you have for
>>>quite some time been spamming the newsgroups with the address of a
>>>website (set up by yourself) which seriously defames this man.
>>
>>Ahhh, defamation. You actually don't know the laws do you?
>
>Neither, it seems, do you.

Ahh, how wrong you are.


>
>>You see, truth is NOT a de fence in a libel or defamation action in
>>the courts of NSW. However, here's my webpage, up, and informing
>>people, and having people contact me for help an information, and in
>>the state of NSW as well. Most things on it are from his own
>>publications.
>
>Why do you assume you'd be sued in a court in New South Wales? I'm in
>South Australia, and I read it. Little Pebble might sue in the
>District Court of SA.

Kind of nutty, since the webpages are in NSW. That would be like suing
the Sydney Morning Herald in Adelaide, because you bought it at a
newsagent.

>
>> You might want to think on that.
>
>You might want to seek legal advice.

Like I said. I *have* a good lawyer, and I am perfectly aware that
truth is not a defence in a libel action. Certain other things are.


--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 13:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
> (fasgnâdh) wrote:
>> Wally AngleseaT wrote
>>> Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>
>>> I like to help people caught up in it.

<snip>

>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>> catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>> much.
>
> Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
> your foot into your mouth.

What has an education got to do with his perfectly rational conclusion ?


>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>
>> Get away with what? Child abuse?
>
> Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
> leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
> allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
> cult
>
> OK?
>
> I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or come
> July I'll rub your face in it.


You sound like a bit of a loony.
HTH.
Horace Wachope
2005-03-14 13:33:00 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:21:33 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>> (fasgnâdh) wrote:
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote
>>>> Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>>
>>>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>
><snip>
>
>>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>> catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>> much.
>>
>> Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>> your foot into your mouth.
>
>What has an education got to do with his perfectly rational conclusion ?
>
>
>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>
>>> Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>
>> Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>> leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
>> allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>> cult
>>
>> OK?
>>
>> I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or come
>> July I'll rub your face in it.
>
>
>You sound like a bit of a loony.

He sounds like a bit of a wally, actually.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 20:45:35 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:21:33 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>> (fasgnâdh) wrote:
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote
>>>> Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>>
>>>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>
><snip>
>
>>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>> catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>> much.
>>
>> Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again put
>> your foot into your mouth.
>
>What has an education got to do with his perfectly rational conclusion ?

I suppose I *should* have suggested he gets an education on cults in
general.

>
>
>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>
>>> Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>
>> Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>> leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
>> allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of the
>> cult
>>
>> OK?
>>
>> I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or come
>> July I'll rub your face in it.
>
>
>You sound like a bit of a loony.
>HTH.

Well, I'll attribute that to your lack of knowledge on the subject.



--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 21:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>> (fasgnâdh) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>>> catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>>> much.
>>>
>>> Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again
>>> put your foot into your mouth.
>>
>> What has an education got to do with his perfectly rational
>> conclusion ?
>
> I suppose I *should* have suggested he gets an education on cults in
> general.
>
>>
>>
>>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>>
>>>> Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>>
>>> Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>>> leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
>>> allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of
>>> the cult
>>>
>>> OK?
>>>
>>> I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or
>>> come July I'll rub your face in it.
>>
>>
>> You sound like a bit of a loony.
>> HTH.
>
> Well, I'll attribute that to your lack of knowledge on the subject.

I once escaped a cult.
You however, have not.

You may now bow to my superior knowledge on the subject.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 23:15:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:31:43 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>> (fasgnâdh) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nevertheless, you seem to harbour some bitterness against this
>>>>> catholic splinter group. You definitely seem to be protesting too
>>>>> much.
>>>>
>>>> Nope. Perhaps you might want to get an education before you again
>>>> put your foot into your mouth.
>>>
>>> What has an education got to do with his perfectly rational
>>> conclusion ?
>>
>> I suppose I *should* have suggested he gets an education on cults in
>> general.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Get away with what? Child abuse?
>>>>
>>>> Let me leave it to the court case coming up in June, when the cult
>>>> leader will be found innocent or guilty for sexual assault. No
>>>> allegations of child abuse have been brought against any member of
>>>> the cult
>>>>
>>>> OK?
>>>>
>>>> I can't discuss the matter, and you might just want to shut up or
>>>> come July I'll rub your face in it.
>>>
>>>
>>> You sound like a bit of a loony.
>>> HTH.
>>
>> Well, I'll attribute that to your lack of knowledge on the subject.
>
>I once escaped a cult.

Good for you. Then you know why it's important for there to be support
outside the cult

>You however, have not.

Nope. I've had the luck to never get caught up in one. Not unless you
count the Alice Cooper fan club.

>
>You may now bow to my superior knowledge on the subject.

Any time you have anything to contribute that's useful. Most people
who have left cults (and *all* the ones I deal with), recognise the
importance of dialogue, and information, and support. It's also very
important to not be judgmental of people who have left cults. Many go
through a "grieving" process, and blame themselves, until they
recognise it was mostly the fault of the ratbag who took advantage of
their needs.




--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-15 03:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>
> Any time you have anything to contribute that's useful. Most people
> who have left cults (and *all* the ones I deal with), recognise the
> importance of dialogue, and information, and support. It's also very
> important to not be judgmental of people who have left cults. Many go
> through a "grieving" process, and blame themselves, until they
> recognise it was mostly the fault of the ratbag who took advantage of
> their needs.

But what is your interest/stake in all of this ?
How are you qualified to help ?
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-17 00:03:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:11:55 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>
>> Any time you have anything to contribute that's useful. Most people
>> who have left cults (and *all* the ones I deal with), recognise the
>> importance of dialogue, and information, and support. It's also very
>> important to not be judgmental of people who have left cults. Many go
>> through a "grieving" process, and blame themselves, until they
>> recognise it was mostly the fault of the ratbag who took advantage of
>> their needs.
>
>But what is your interest/stake in all of this ?

I don't have a stake in it. My interest is in helping. You might
finds this hard to believe, but I felt it was simply the right thing
to do in this case. Knowing what I know (some of which cannot go on
the website), would it be right to stand by and just let it happen,
when you can actually do something about it?

>How are you qualified to help ?

I'm not a psychologist, nor a professional counselor. I don't provide
counsel, nor advise anyone, except help arrange for assistance
(financial or otherwise) for those who ask.

Years of experience, and education and help from professionals lets me
help that way. Most psychologists and counselors aren't interested (or
don't have time) in exposing a cult leader. That's not their job.

I'd add I'm not a politician, and I discuss politics. I'm not involved
in the film industry, but I know when I'm watching a bad film.

I'm not a professional astronomer either, but I contribute to
professional research.

I help those with members in the cult, with information, access to
support, and *whatever* ex-cult members need or ask for.

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-17 00:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>
>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>
>>> Any time you have anything to contribute that's useful. Most people
>>> who have left cults (and *all* the ones I deal with), recognise the
>>> importance of dialogue, and information, and support. It's also very
>>> important to not be judgmental of people who have left cults. Many
>>> go through a "grieving" process, and blame themselves, until they
>>> recognise it was mostly the fault of the ratbag who took advantage
>>> of their needs.
>>
>> But what is your interest/stake in all of this ?
>
> I don't have a stake in it. My interest is in helping. You might
> finds this hard to believe, but I felt it was simply the right thing
> to do in this case. Knowing what I know (some of which cannot go on
> the website), would it be right to stand by and just let it happen,
> when you can actually do something about it?
>
>> How are you qualified to help ?
>
> I'm not a psychologist, nor a professional counselor. I don't provide
> counsel, nor advise anyone, except help arrange for assistance
> (financial or otherwise) for those who ask.
>
> Years of experience, and education and help from professionals lets me
> help that way. Most psychologists and counselors aren't interested (or
> don't have time) in exposing a cult leader. That's not their job.
>
> I'd add I'm not a politician, and I discuss politics. I'm not involved
> in the film industry, but I know when I'm watching a bad film.
>
> I'm not a professional astronomer either, but I contribute to
> professional research.
>
> I help those with members in the cult, with information, access to
> support, and *whatever* ex-cult members need or ask for.

thanks.
I was just interested is all.

--
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-17 01:21:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:52:25 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>>
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Any time you have anything to contribute that's useful. Most people
>>>> who have left cults (and *all* the ones I deal with), recognise the
>>>> importance of dialogue, and information, and support. It's also very
>>>> important to not be judgmental of people who have left cults. Many
>>>> go through a "grieving" process, and blame themselves, until they
>>>> recognise it was mostly the fault of the ratbag who took advantage
>>>> of their needs.
>>>
>>> But what is your interest/stake in all of this ?
>>
>> I don't have a stake in it. My interest is in helping. You might
>> finds this hard to believe, but I felt it was simply the right thing
>> to do in this case. Knowing what I know (some of which cannot go on
>> the website), would it be right to stand by and just let it happen,
>> when you can actually do something about it?
>>
>>> How are you qualified to help ?
>>
>> I'm not a psychologist, nor a professional counselor. I don't provide
>> counsel, nor advise anyone, except help arrange for assistance
>> (financial or otherwise) for those who ask.
>>
>> Years of experience, and education and help from professionals lets me
>> help that way. Most psychologists and counselors aren't interested (or
>> don't have time) in exposing a cult leader. That's not their job.
>>
>> I'd add I'm not a politician, and I discuss politics. I'm not involved
>> in the film industry, but I know when I'm watching a bad film.
>>
>> I'm not a professional astronomer either, but I contribute to
>> professional research.
>>
>> I help those with members in the cult, with information, access to
>> support, and *whatever* ex-cult members need or ask for.
>
>thanks.
>I was just interested is all.

You were polite. We might have gotten off on the wrong foot :-)

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Rick Hard
2005-03-17 01:51:58 UTC
Permalink
On 17/3/05 12:21 PM, in article ***@4ax.com,
"Wally Anglesea™" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:


>>> I help those with members in the cult, with information, access to
>>> support, and *whatever* ex-cult members need or ask for.
>>
>> thanks.
>> I was just interested is all.
>
> You were polite. We might have gotten off on the wrong foot :-)

Well done Wally.

I know some people who have been sucked in big time by the little pebble and
they have completely lost the plot.

The more people become aware of his activities the less chance he will suck
them in as well.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-17 11:18:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:51:58 +1100, Rick Hard <***@hard.com> wrote:

>On 17/3/05 12:21 PM, in article ***@4ax.com,
>"Wally Anglesea™" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>>>> I help those with members in the cult, with information, access to
>>>> support, and *whatever* ex-cult members need or ask for.
>>>
>>> thanks.
>>> I was just interested is all.
>>
>> You were polite. We might have gotten off on the wrong foot :-)
>
>Well done Wally.
>
>I know some people who have been sucked in big time by the little pebble and
>they have completely lost the plot.
>
>The more people become aware of his activities the less chance he will suck
>them in as well.

Thanks. Which is why my page, and Peter Brown's pages are up.
--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Horace Wachope
2005-03-17 04:08:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 01:21:13 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
<***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:

>"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."

What does this mean?
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-17 11:11:34 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:38:48 +1030, Horace Wachope
<***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 01:21:13 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:
>
>>"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
>
>What does this mean?

It comes from a tale, with one variation being an astronomer gave a
lecture about the nature of space.
After the lecture, an elderly person came up to him, and said, "What
you have told us is rubbish. The Earth moves through space on the back
of a turtle"

The astronomer said "But what does the turtle stand on?"

The elderly person said "Ahh, you can't fool me, it's turtles all the
way down"

A version of the tale is here:
http://www.cafepress.com/turtleswaydown

and here:

http://www.the-funneled-web.com/Hawking.htm


And it's doubly my favourite line, because one of my favourite
authors,Terry Pratchett has a "fixation" with turtles and there's a
website http://www.turtlesalltheway.com/


--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
carole
2005-04-15 03:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Wally Anglesea™ wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:38:48 +1030, Horace Wachope
> <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 01:21:13 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
> ><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >>"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
> >
> >What does this mean?
>
> It comes from a tale, with one variation being an astronomer gave a
> lecture about the nature of space.
> After the lecture, an elderly person came up to him, and said, "What
> you have told us is rubbish. The Earth moves through space on the
back
> of a turtle"
>
> The astronomer said "But what does the turtle stand on?"
>
> The elderly person said "Ahh, you can't fool me, it's turtles all the
> way down"
>
> A version of the tale is here:
> http://www.cafepress.com/turtleswaydown
>
> and here:
>
> http://www.the-funneled-web.com/Hawking.htm
>
>
> And it's doubly my favourite line, because one of my favourite
> authors,Terry Pratchett has a "fixation" with turtles and there's a
> website http://www.turtlesalltheway.com/
>
>
> --
>
> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>
> "You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."

Thanks for that explanation Wal.
I think you're wrong about Little Pebble being Australia's most
dangerous doomsday cult. That privilege should instead go to
fundamental christianity, which as in US is driving their international
policies.
You're problem is you don't look at the big picture, just get bogged
down with trivilities.


Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C3858%2C4905411-110878%2C00.html
George Monbiot
Tuesday April 20, 2004

Guardian

To understand what is happening in the Middle East, you must first
understand what is happening in Texas. To understand what is happening
there, you should read the resolutions passed at the state's Republican
party conventions last month. Take a look, for example, at the
decisions made in Harris County, which covers much of Houston.
The delegates began by nodding through a few uncontroversial matters:
homosexuality is contrary to the truths ordained by God; "any mechanism
to process, license, record, register or monitor the ownership of guns"
should be repealed; income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and
corporation tax should be abolished; and immigrants should be deterred
by electric fences. Thus fortified, they turned to the real issue: the
affairs of a small state 7,000 miles away. It was then, according to a
participant, that the "screaming and near fist fights" began.

I don't know what the original motion said, but apparently it was
"watered down significantly" as a result of the shouting match. The
motion they adopted stated that Israel has an undivided claim to
Jerusalem and the West Bank, that Arab states should be "pressured" to
absorb refugees from Palestine, and that Israel should do whatever it
wishes in seeking to eliminate terrorism. Good to see that the
extremists didn't prevail then.

But why should all this be of such pressing interest to the people of a
state which is seldom celebrated for its fascination with foreign
affairs? The explanation is slowly becoming familiar to us, but we
still have some difficulty in taking it seriously.

In the United States, several million people have succumbed to an
extraordinary delusion. In the 19th century, two immigrant preachers
cobbled together a series of unrelated passages from the Bible to
create what appears to be a consistent narrative: Jesus will return to
Earth when certain preconditions have been met. The first of these was
the establishment of a state of Israel. The next involves Israel's
occupation of the rest of its "biblical lands" (most of the Middle
East), and the rebuilding of the Third Temple on the site now occupied
by the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosques. The legions of the
antichrist will then be deployed against Israel, and their war will
lead to a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. The Jews will
either burn or convert to Christianity, and the Messiah will return to
Earth.

What makes the story so appealing to Christian fundamentalists is that
before the big battle begins, all "true believers" (ie those who
believe what they believe) will be lifted out of their clothes and
wafted up to heaven during an event called the Rapture. Not only do the
worthy get to sit at the right hand of God, but they will be able to
watch, from the best seats, their political and religious opponents
being devoured by boils, sores, locusts and frogs, during the seven
years of Tribulation which follow.

The true believers are now seeking to bring all this about. This means
staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US
Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there),
sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding
ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle
with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European
Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be.

The believers are convinced that they will soon be rewarded for their
efforts. The antichrist is apparently walking among us, in the guise of
Kofi Annan, Javier Solana, Yasser Arafat or, more plausibly, Silvio
Berlusconi. The Wal-Mart corporation is also a candidate (in my view a
very good one), because it wants to radio-tag its stock, thereby
exposing humankind to the Mark of the Beast.

By clicking on www.raptureready.com, you can discover how close you
might be to flying out of your pyjamas. The infidels among us should
take note that the Rapture Index currently stands at 144, just one
point below the critical threshold, beyond which the sky will be filled
with floating nudists. Beast Government, Wild Weather and Israel are
all trading at the maximum five points (the EU is debat ing its
constitution, there was a freak hurricane in the south Atlantic, Hamas
has sworn to avenge the killing of its leaders), but the second coming
is currently being delayed by an unfortunate decline in drug abuse
among teenagers and a weak showing by the antichrist (both of which
score only two).

We can laugh at these people, but we should not dismiss them. That
their beliefs are bonkers does not mean they are marginal. American
pollsters believe that 15-18% of US voters belong to churches or
movements which subscribe to these teachings. A survey in 1999
suggested that this figure included 33% of Republicans. The
best-selling contemporary books in the US are the 12 volumes of the
Left Behind series, which provide what is usually described as a
"fictionalised" account of the Rapture (this, apparently, distinguishes
it from the other one), with plenty of dripping details about what will
happen to the rest of us. The people who believe all this don't believe
it just a little; for them it is a matter of life eternal and death.

And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John
Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several
prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay. Mr DeLay
(who is also the co-author of the marvellously named DeLay-Doolittle
Amendment, postponing campaign finance reforms) travelled to Israel
last year to tell the Knesset that "there is no middle ground, no
moderate position worth taking".

So here we have a major political constituency - representing much of
the current president's core vote - in the most powerful nation on
Earth, which is actively seeking to provoke a new world war. Its
members see the invasion of Iraq as a warm-up act, as Revelation
(9:14-15) maintains that four angels "which are bound in the great
river Euphrates" will be released "to slay the third part of men". They
batter down the doors of the White House as soon as its support for
Israel wavers: when Bush asked Ariel Sharon to pull his tanks out of
Jenin in 2002, he received 100,000 angry emails from Christian
fundamentalists, and never mentioned the matter again.

The electoral calculation, crazy as it appears, works like this.
Governments stand or fall on domestic issues. For 85% of the US
electorate, the Middle East is a foreign issue, and therefore of
secondary interest when they enter the polling booth. For 15% of the
electorate, the Middle East is not just a domestic matter, it's a
personal one: if the president fails to start a conflagration there,
his core voters don't get to sit at the right hand of God. Bush, in
other words, stands to lose fewer votes by encouraging Israeli
aggression than he stands to lose by restraining it. He would be mad to
listen to these people. He would also be mad not to.

· George Monbiot's book The Age of Consent: a Manifesto for a New
World Order is now published in paperback


Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm
aussieflyer
2005-04-15 10:26:27 UTC
Permalink
http://www.voxfux.com/features/stranger_than_fiction.htm


carole wrote:

>Wally Anglesea^(TM) wrote:
>
>
>>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:38:48 +1030, Horace Wachope
>><***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 01:21:13 GMT, Wally Anglesea^(TM)
>>><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>What does this mean?
>>>
>>>
>>It comes from a tale, with one variation being an astronomer gave a
>>lecture about the nature of space.
>>After the lecture, an elderly person came up to him, and said, "What
>>you have told us is rubbish. The Earth moves through space on the
>>
>>
>back
>
>
>>of a turtle"
>>
>>The astronomer said "But what does the turtle stand on?"
>>
>>The elderly person said "Ahh, you can't fool me, it's turtles all the
>>way down"
>>
>>A version of the tale is here:
>>http://www.cafepress.com/turtleswaydown
>>
>>and here:
>>
>>http://www.the-funneled-web.com/Hawking.htm
>>
>>
>>And it's doubly my favourite line, because one of my favourite
>>authors,Terry Pratchett has a "fixation" with turtles and there's a
>>website http://www.turtlesalltheway.com/
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>
>>"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for that explanation Wal.
>I think you're wrong about Little Pebble being Australia's most
>dangerous doomsday cult. That privilege should instead go to
>fundamental christianity, which as in US is driving their international
>policies.
>You're problem is you don't look at the big picture, just get bogged
>down with trivilities.
>
>
>Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
>US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C3858%2C4905411-110878%2C00.html
>George Monbiot
>Tuesday April 20, 2004
>
>Guardian
>
>To understand what is happening in the Middle East, you must first
>understand what is happening in Texas. To understand what is happening
>there, you should read the resolutions passed at the state's Republican
>party conventions last month. Take a look, for example, at the
>decisions made in Harris County, which covers much of Houston.
>The delegates began by nodding through a few uncontroversial matters:
>homosexuality is contrary to the truths ordained by God; "any mechanism
>to process, license, record, register or monitor the ownership of guns"
>should be repealed; income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and
>corporation tax should be abolished; and immigrants should be deterred
>by electric fences. Thus fortified, they turned to the real issue: the
>affairs of a small state 7,000 miles away. It was then, according to a
>participant, that the "screaming and near fist fights" began.
>
>I don't know what the original motion said, but apparently it was
>"watered down significantly" as a result of the shouting match. The
>motion they adopted stated that Israel has an undivided claim to
>Jerusalem and the West Bank, that Arab states should be "pressured" to
>absorb refugees from Palestine, and that Israel should do whatever it
>wishes in seeking to eliminate terrorism. Good to see that the
>extremists didn't prevail then.
>
>But why should all this be of such pressing interest to the people of a
>state which is seldom celebrated for its fascination with foreign
>affairs? The explanation is slowly becoming familiar to us, but we
>still have some difficulty in taking it seriously.
>
>In the United States, several million people have succumbed to an
>extraordinary delusion. In the 19th century, two immigrant preachers
>cobbled together a series of unrelated passages from the Bible to
>create what appears to be a consistent narrative: Jesus will return to
>Earth when certain preconditions have been met. The first of these was
>the establishment of a state of Israel. The next involves Israel's
>occupation of the rest of its "biblical lands" (most of the Middle
>East), and the rebuilding of the Third Temple on the site now occupied
>by the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosques. The legions of the
>antichrist will then be deployed against Israel, and their war will
>lead to a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. The Jews will
>either burn or convert to Christianity, and the Messiah will return to
>Earth.
>
>What makes the story so appealing to Christian fundamentalists is that
>before the big battle begins, all "true believers" (ie those who
>believe what they believe) will be lifted out of their clothes and
>wafted up to heaven during an event called the Rapture. Not only do the
>worthy get to sit at the right hand of God, but they will be able to
>watch, from the best seats, their political and religious opponents
>being devoured by boils, sores, locusts and frogs, during the seven
>years of Tribulation which follow.
>
>The true believers are now seeking to bring all this about. This means
>staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US
>Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there),
>sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding
>ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle
>with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European
>Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be.
>
>The believers are convinced that they will soon be rewarded for their
>efforts. The antichrist is apparently walking among us, in the guise of
>Kofi Annan, Javier Solana, Yasser Arafat or, more plausibly, Silvio
>Berlusconi. The Wal-Mart corporation is also a candidate (in my view a
>very good one), because it wants to radio-tag its stock, thereby
>exposing humankind to the Mark of the Beast.
>
>By clicking on www.raptureready.com, you can discover how close you
>might be to flying out of your pyjamas. The infidels among us should
>take note that the Rapture Index currently stands at 144, just one
>point below the critical threshold, beyond which the sky will be filled
>with floating nudists. Beast Government, Wild Weather and Israel are
>all trading at the maximum five points (the EU is debat ing its
>constitution, there was a freak hurricane in the south Atlantic, Hamas
>has sworn to avenge the killing of its leaders), but the second coming
>is currently being delayed by an unfortunate decline in drug abuse
>among teenagers and a weak showing by the antichrist (both of which
>score only two).
>
>We can laugh at these people, but we should not dismiss them. That
>their beliefs are bonkers does not mean they are marginal. American
>pollsters believe that 15-18% of US voters belong to churches or
>movements which subscribe to these teachings. A survey in 1999
>suggested that this figure included 33% of Republicans. The
>best-selling contemporary books in the US are the 12 volumes of the
>Left Behind series, which provide what is usually described as a
>"fictionalised" account of the Rapture (this, apparently, distinguishes
>it from the other one), with plenty of dripping details about what will
>happen to the rest of us. The people who believe all this don't believe
>it just a little; for them it is a matter of life eternal and death.
>
>And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John
>Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several
>prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay. Mr DeLay
>(who is also the co-author of the marvellously named DeLay-Doolittle
>Amendment, postponing campaign finance reforms) travelled to Israel
>last year to tell the Knesset that "there is no middle ground, no
>moderate position worth taking".
>
>So here we have a major political constituency - representing much of
>the current president's core vote - in the most powerful nation on
>Earth, which is actively seeking to provoke a new world war. Its
>members see the invasion of Iraq as a warm-up act, as Revelation
>(9:14-15) maintains that four angels "which are bound in the great
>river Euphrates" will be released "to slay the third part of men". They
>batter down the doors of the White House as soon as its support for
>Israel wavers: when Bush asked Ariel Sharon to pull his tanks out of
>Jenin in 2002, he received 100,000 angry emails from Christian
>fundamentalists, and never mentioned the matter again.
>
>The electoral calculation, crazy as it appears, works like this.
>Governments stand or fall on domestic issues. For 85% of the US
>electorate, the Middle East is a foreign issue, and therefore of
>secondary interest when they enter the polling booth. For 15% of the
>electorate, the Middle East is not just a domestic matter, it's a
>personal one: if the president fails to start a conflagration there,
>his core voters don't get to sit at the right hand of God. Bush, in
>other words, stands to lose fewer votes by encouraging Israeli
>aggression than he stands to lose by restraining it. He would be mad to
>listen to these people. He would also be mad not to.
>
>· George Monbiot's book The Age of Consent: a Manifesto for a New
>World Order is now published in paperback
>
>
>Carole
>http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm
>
>
>
carole
2005-04-18 11:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-18 12:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These
contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
carole
2005-04-21 20:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Qolon, you're waffling - What are you are trying to say?

There is a health conspiracy to keep people ignorant of nutritional
remedies. Ever heard of scurvy or beri beri? --the tip of the iceberg.

Also the bible is a self-referential book i.e., it tells us it is true.
There are other so-called inspired books like the koran and torah and
so on. They might have some truths imbedded in them and they might have
some misconceptions, and they might be filled with contradictions.
Which ones do you believe?

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm
Qolon
2005-04-21 21:26:36 UTC
Permalink
I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
and vanity' of your www-page, where your are, without aptitude and knowledge
is dictating the plausibility of religious belief.

Which word in my post didn't you understand?

- dolf

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Qolon, you're waffling - What are you are trying to say?

There is a health conspiracy to keep people ignorant of nutritional
remedies. Ever heard of scurvy or beri beri? --the tip of the iceberg.

Also the bible is a self-referential book i.e., it tells us it is true.
There are other so-called inspired books like the koran and torah and
so on. They might have some truths imbedded in them and they might have
some misconceptions, and they might be filled with contradictions.
Which ones do you believe?

QOLON NOTE:
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct
opposite, or antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the
two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-21 21:29:54 UTC
Permalink
I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
and vanity' of your www-page, where your are, without aptitude and knowledge
[are] dictating the plausibility of religious belief.

Which word in my post didn't you understand?

- dolf

0607hrs
#66 - Strategic Reversal/ Putting Oneself Behind
#51 * - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue
#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War
#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government
#42 - Generating Things/ Reason's Modifications
#79 - Recognizing Agreements/ Keep Your Obligations
#77 - The Natural Guide/ Heaven's Reason
#7 - Intentional Reversal/ Dimming Radiance

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Qolon, you're waffling - What are you are trying to say?

There is a health conspiracy to keep people ignorant of nutritional
remedies. Ever heard of scurvy or beri beri? --the tip of the iceberg.

Also the bible is a self-referential book i.e., it tells us it is true.
There are other so-called inspired books like the koran and torah and
so on. They might have some truths imbedded in them and they might have
some misconceptions, and they might be filled with contradictions.
Which ones do you believe?

QOLON NOTE:
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct
opposite, or antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the
two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-21 21:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Since you are probably a pedantic, let me remove any obvious semantical
errors...

I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance and
vanity' of your www-page, where your are, without aptitude and knowledge,
dictating the plausibility of religious belief.

Which word in my post didn't you understand?

- dolf

0607hrs
#66 - Strategic Reversal/ Putting Oneself Behind
#51 * - Natural Guides and Natural Virtuosity/ Nursing Virtue
#31 - Military Strategies as Guides/ Quelling War
#37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government
#42 - Generating Things/ Reason's Modifications
#79 - Recognizing Agreements/ Keep Your Obligations
#77 - The Natural Guide/ Heaven's Reason
#7 - Intentional Reversal/ Dimming Radiance

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Qolon, you're waffling - What are you are trying to say?

There is a health conspiracy to keep people ignorant of nutritional
remedies. Ever heard of scurvy or beri beri? --the tip of the iceberg.

Also the bible is a self-referential book i.e., it tells us it is true.
There are other so-called inspired books like the koran and torah and
so on. They might have some truths imbedded in them and they might have
some misconceptions, and they might be filled with contradictions.
Which ones do you believe?

QOLON NOTE:
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct
opposite, or antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the
two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
B J Foster
2005-04-22 22:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Qolon wrote:

> Since you are probably a pedantic, let me remove any obvious semantical
> errors...
>
> I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance and
> vanity' of your www-page, where your are, without aptitude and knowledge,
> dictating the plausibility of religious belief.
>
> Which word in my post didn't you understand?
>
> - dolf

Start with "Since" and continue all the way until you reach "dolf"

Now, going the other way:

> My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
> element to them, designed to control people.

Q. Are religions made by god?
A. No

> However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
> religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
> its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
> they are.
> But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
> because I think they are all manipulative.
> Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
> put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
> that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.
>
> Carole
> http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
>

Score:
Truth and logic: 1
Religiobabble: 0
Qolon
2005-04-22 22:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Actually, the problem is yours "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com>--you are a
liar engaging in public abuses, as my comments on the matter under
consideration, has elsewhere in private dialog with an emeritus professor of
English who deals with matters of the "Psychology of Fundamentalism", been
described as:

a) Most cogent {ie. compelling assent or belief; convincing};
b) Dialectical thinking {ie. rational and logical}
c) Much food for thought

Perhaps you should keep your trolling to aus.invest or otherwise post only
to subjects you are acquainted with.

- dolf

"B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42697566$0$5177$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
and
> vanity' of your www-page, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge,
> dictating the plausibility of religious belief.

Start with "Since" and continue all the way until you reach "dolf"

Now, going the other way:

[snipped for context]
Qolon
2005-04-23 03:26:14 UTC
Permalink
As the subject relates to a religious segment reported on 60 minutes,
related to aus.tv has been restored.

I have also restored aus.politics to the discssion, as the autonomous and
teleological paradigm which I have previously discussed over which you
object, is thematically associated with the Letters Patent to Australia's
Constitution of 1901
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif and the
pre-eminent German Philosopher Hegel's (1770-1831 CE) 'Phenomenology of
Spirit'as philosophy of history which is essentially that of a dialectical
progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains Nature (#4 -
Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions inherent to
its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of Nature)}.
These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.
The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel."

Particularly given your 23 June 2002 expression of the value: "I am
defending western civilization, which includes the principle of 'innocent
until proven guilty'. If not, there is no need to defend it, since I'm not
particularly interested in religious zealots..." it is probably more
advantageous to remove yourself from the discussion, rather than for us to
have to entertain and feed your personality dysfunction.

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos

"B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4269bb71$0$4659$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
aus.politics, aus.tv removed

QOLON NOTE:
Actually, the problem is yours "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com>--you are a
liar engaging in public abuses, as my comments on the matter under
consideration, has elsewhere in private dialog with an emeritus professor of
English who deals with matters of the "Psychology of Fundamentalism", been
described as:

a) Most cogent {ie. compelling assent or belief; convincing};
b) Dialectical thinking {ie. rational and logical}
c) Much food for thought

Perhaps you should keep your trolling to aus.invest or otherwise post only
to subjects you are acquainted with.

- dolf

"B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42697566$0$5177$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
> I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
and
> vanity' of your www-page, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge,
> dictating the plausibility of religious belief.

Start with "Since" and continue all the way until you reach "dolf"

Now, going the other way:

[snipped for context]
B J Foster
2005-04-23 05:19:32 UTC
Permalink
Okay, since I'm not qualified to help any further I am referring your
case to the professionals.

Qolon wrote:

> As the subject relates to a religious segment reported on 60 minutes,
> related to aus.tv has been restored.
>
> I have also restored aus.politics to the discssion, as the autonomous and
> teleological paradigm which I have previously discussed over which you
> object, is thematically associated with the Letters Patent to Australia's
> Constitution of 1901
> http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif and the
> pre-eminent German Philosopher Hegel's (1770-1831 CE) 'Phenomenology of
> Spirit'as philosophy of history which is essentially that of a dialectical
> progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains Nature (#4 -
> Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions inherent to
> its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of Nature)}.
> These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
> antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.
> The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
> Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
> contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
> dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
> advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
> goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
> Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
> it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
> purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
> 'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
> unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
> defines the meaning of history for Hegel."
>
> Particularly given your 23 June 2002 expression of the value: "I am
> defending western civilization, which includes the principle of 'innocent
> until proven guilty'. If not, there is no need to defend it, since I'm not
> particularly interested in religious zealots..." it is probably more
> advantageous to remove yourself from the discussion, rather than for us to
> have to entertain and feed your personality dysfunction.
>
> - dolf
> - http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos
>
> "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4269bb71$0$4659$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
> aus.politics, aus.tv removed
>
> QOLON NOTE:
> Actually, the problem is yours "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com>--you are a
> liar engaging in public abuses, as my comments on the matter under
> consideration, has elsewhere in private dialog with an emeritus professor of
> English who deals with matters of the "Psychology of Fundamentalism", been
> described as:
>
> a) Most cogent {ie. compelling assent or belief; convincing};
> b) Dialectical thinking {ie. rational and logical}
> c) Much food for thought
>
> Perhaps you should keep your trolling to aus.invest or otherwise post only
> to subjects you are acquainted with.
>
> - dolf
>
> "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42697566$0$5177$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
>
> and
>
>>vanity' of your www-page, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge,
>>dictating the plausibility of religious belief.
>
>
> Start with "Since" and continue all the way until you reach "dolf"
>
> Now, going the other way:
>
> [snipped for context]
>
>
>
Qolon
2005-04-23 05:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Quite apart from your behavorial problems as the desire to engage in abuses
which you have now acted out on three occasions, there clearly isn't a
factual need for your participation within the discussion thread.

Are you perhaps confusing your narcissism with piety--or did satan make you
do it?

- dolf

"B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4269db2f$0$4659$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
Okay, since I'm not qualified to help any further I am referring your
case to the professionals.

"Harassment? You are harassing this newsgroup (aus.invest), you are
harassing other people by complaining to their ISPs, you are harassing me
with offensive headings like 'Associate of Satan' and finally, you are
harassing me with threats. Just take the hint & go away." [B J Foster
<***@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:55:16 +1000]

1155hrs Noumenon Entry
#36 - Natural Reversals/ The 'Secret' Explanation
#74 - Controlling Feelings/ Overcome Delusion
#73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act
#52 * - So What?/ Returning to the Origin
#6 - The Superiority of the Female/ The Completion of Form
#38 - Consequences for Virtuosity/ Discourse of Virtue
#26 - Ambiguous Reversals/ The Virtue of Gravity
#77 -The Natural Guide/ Heaven's Reason

5 Jul 2002 Noumenon Entry
#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War
#30 - Government without Coercion/ Be Chary of War
#74 - Controlling Feelings/ Overcome Delusion
#43 * - Absolute Negation/ It's Universal Application
#22 - The Point to Reversal?/ Humility's Increase
#33 - Achievable Goals/ The Virtue of Discrimation
#21 - Guiding and the Physical/ Emptying the Heart
#44 - Moderate Values/ Setting Up Precepts

Qolon wrote:

> As the subject relates to a religious segment reported on 60 minutes,
> related to aus.tv has been restored.
>
> I have also restored aus.politics to the discssion, as the autonomous and
> teleological paradigm which I have previously discussed over which you
> object, is thematically associated with the Letters Patent to Australia's
> Constitution of 1901
> http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif and the
> pre-eminent German Philosopher Hegel's (1770-1831 CE) 'Phenomenology of
> Spirit'as philosophy of history which is essentially that of a dialectical
> progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains Nature (#4 -
> Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions inherent to
> its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of Nature)}.
> These contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
> antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.
> The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
> Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
> contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
> dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
> advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
> goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
> Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world
history,
> it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
> purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
> 'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
> unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
> defines the meaning of history for Hegel."
>
> Particularly given your 23 June 2002 expression of the value: "I am
> defending western civilization, which includes the principle of 'innocent
> until proven guilty'. If not, there is no need to defend it, since I'm not
> particularly interested in religious zealots..." it is probably more
> advantageous to remove yourself from the discussion, rather than for us to
> have to entertain and feed your personality dysfunction.
>
> - dolf
> - http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos
>
> "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4269bb71$0$4659$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
> aus.politics, aus.tv removed
>
> QOLON NOTE:
> Actually, the problem is yours "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com>--you are
a
> liar engaging in public abuses, as my comments on the matter under
> consideration, has elsewhere in private dialog with an emeritus professor
of
> English who deals with matters of the "Psychology of Fundamentalism", been
> described as:
>
> a) Most cogent {ie. compelling assent or belief; convincing};
> b) Dialectical thinking {ie. rational and logical}
> c) Much food for thought
>
> Perhaps you should keep your trolling to aus.invest or otherwise post only
> to subjects you are acquainted with.
>
> - dolf
>
> "B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42697566$0$5177$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>I can't be engaging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the 'arrogance
>
> and
>
>>vanity' of your www-page, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge,
>>dictating the plausibility of religious belief.
>
>
> Start with "Since" and continue all the way until you reach "dolf"
>
> Now, going the other way:
>
> [snipped for context]
>
>
>
Qolon
2005-04-24 03:38:05 UTC
Permalink
I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare (note:
I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.

I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
cease engaging in such abuses.

As I said, I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the
'arrogance and vanity' of your www-page {ie. as if burn some incense or
putting your oil burner on, and meditating is all there is to the meaning of
life}, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge is dictating the
plausibility of religious belief.

As I adhere to a teleological and autonomous view of religious belief,
thought and conscience which has no antagonism towards the principles of
sovereignty, head of state and autonomy of our Constitution [cf:
<http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif> ] and therefore
ought to be free from the coercion and abuses which is the conduct and
nature of Institutional religious and cultic mythical practice.

Consequently I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you feel the
slef-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you have
children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours as
ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
heroin importation.

I have also restored the newsgroups aus.politics and aus.tv.

- dolf

"Carole Hubbard" <***@iimetro.com.au> wrote in message
news:d4f3dh$u87$***@austarmetro.com.au...
I don't understand your interpretation of my religion webpage as "arrogance
and vanity".

I must have hit a nerve - sure got you fired up anyway.
What part of my webpage don't you understand, dolf?

...You think the bible makes sense?
...You don't believe in reincarnation?
...You a "born again" christian?
...Other?

QOLON NOTE:
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These
contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-24 06:47:32 UTC
Permalink
The term 'weird' is only a description of your lack of experience with the
subject.

In this instance, with the election of a new Papal Authority as Benedictus
XVI who was installed 24 April 2005, there no longer exists any lawful
reason for the Marian 'Doomsday Cult' operated by the 'Little Pebble' as a
tax haven for single mothers of 16 children who otherwise claim to be wedded
catholically, to legitimately claim to be a religious institution and
therefore lawfully capable of deriving any benefits such as taxation
exemption which are available to religious institutions.

- dolf

QUOTE:
Bishop Peter Ingham's message
Reflections on a schism - a false claim to legitimacy

Schism is a split or breach of communion with the Church caused by a real
repudiation (not just an act of disobedience) of the authority of the Pope.

The prerogative to appoint a bishop belongs to the Pope alone.

To violate that brings an automatic excommunication reserved to the Holy
See, for both the consecrating bishop and for the one consecrated.

A group in the Wollongong Diocese, the so called 'Order of St Charbel' (of
which Mr William Kamm is the founder and moderator, and Fr Malcolm
Broussard, the purported 'prelate' for the order) has been the subject of
pastoral warnings by my predecessors, Bishop William Murray and Archbishop
Philip Wilson, in order to protect the faithful from being led astray from
authentic Catholicism.

As a result of a canonical investigation by Archbishop Wilson and with the
specific and direct instruction by the Vatican's Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith, I was able to issue a decree on June 16, 2002 that
stated:

"The Holy See has declared that there is nothing supernatural about the
alleged visions of Mr William Kamm.

"Mr William Kamm has chosen to spread false teachings, to make false claims
to authority, and to establish himself and his activities in clear
contradiction to the teachings, discipline and authority of the Catholic
Church.

"Mr William Kamm's assertions, teachings and actions are dangerous and
harmful to Christ's faithful."

On that occasion I called on Mr Kamm, Fr Broussard (a suspended American
priest who has associated with Mr Kamm) and the so-called Order of St
Charbel in all its communities (in NSW, Victoria, Queensland and South
Australia) to cease all activities contrary to the teachings, authority and
discipline of the Catholic Church and to renounce all their manifestly false
claims to legitimacy within the Catholic Church.

In March this year Fr Broussard was ordained as a bishop by an
excommunicated bishop and without a mandate from the Pope, and without the
normal scrutiny the Church would conduct to discern the suitability of a
candidate for the Episcopacy.

On the website of the so-called Order of St Charbel (April 26, 2003), Fr
Broussard claims God has chosen him . to be a successor of the apostles to
shepherd the flock under his care . as a bishop of the Catholic Church.

He claims to remain firm in loyalty and obedience to Pope John Paul II and
the Magisterium.
He says: "I also remain firm in my loyalty and obedience to the Little
Pebble, who is to be my future Vicar of Christ. I truly believe in the
mission and messages given by God to him and which have chosen him as the
last Pope of our times."

I did not excommunicate Fr Broussard on June 10, 2003. I simply declared the
excommunication that he incurred under Canon 1382 by receiving purported
'episcopal' ordination without a Pontifical Mandate.

Where is Fr Broussard's Bull of Appointment by Pope John Paul II?

If he does not have that, he may not be ordained a bishop.

Therefore Fr Broussard's excommunication is not about whether his purported
ordination is valid; rather it is about his placing himself and those who
formally adhere to him in schism.

He has broken communion with the Catholic Church.

He has gravely breached the law of the Church and committed a very serious
offence.

He has incurred an automatic excommunication that is reserved to the
Apostolic See.

The Pope's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith directed me to issue
the formal decree that I have issued for the good of people's salvation.

Canon 360 states: "The Supreme Pontiff usually conducts the business of the
universal Church through the Roman Curia, which acts in his name and with
his authority for the good and for the services of the Churches.

"The Curia is composed of the Secretariat of State or Papal Secretariat, the
Council for the public affairs of the Church, the congregations, the
tribunals and other institutes. The constitution and competence of all these
is defined by special law."

So this decree has the Pope's authority - people should make no mistake
about that!

By publicly declaring that Fr Broussard has excommunicated himself, I - as
the Bishop of Wollongong - am acting very pastorally and making a fresh
attempt to call him, William Kamm and their followers, back into communion
with the Catholic Church.

I want Fr Broussard to heal the breach of communion that he has committed. I
want him to see the error of his ways and be reconciled with the Church.

I also have a pastoral concern to protect people of good faith from being
caught up in a schismatic
movement that Fr Broussard has now endorsed by his unlawful purported
ordination. I am concerned for his salvation and the salvation of people who
have been drawn into his schismatic movement. I want to help them all back
into communion with the Catholic Church.

Fr Broussard's appeal should be to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith expressing repentance for gravely breaching the communion of the
Church by going into schism.

He should ask for the lifting of the automatic excommunication he has
incurred; he should fulfil the requirements the Church will put on him, and
be reconciled to the Church.

As the local bishop I would be happy to forward Fr Broussard's appeal for a
lifting of the excommunication, provided he was willing to come to terms
with being part of the real communion of the Church and submitting to lawful
ecclesiastical authority.

I sincerely pray Fr Broussard and his followers will open their hearts to
this call back to real communion with the Church.

A special help line has been established so that people can seek support or
help. Bishop Peter urges people to take advantage of the pastoral care and
counselling that the Church has to offer. 1800 225 922 [cf:
http://www.catholicweekly.com.au/03/jun/29/23.html ]

END QUOTE

- dolf

"B J Foster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:426b3807$0$5178$***@news.optusnet.com.au...
Consider the 'telos' of homosexual (as opposed to heterosexual) union
and it becomes obvious that no-one could seriously be at odds with your
wierd postings - over time. It follows that we (and I assume to speak
for others) are most likely having a problem with your Breidbart index
Carole
2005-04-24 08:31:38 UTC
Permalink
"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
(note:
> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>
> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
> cease engaging in such abuses.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.
Could you repeat the question, and just one question at a time and relevant
to the ng please.

Thankyou
Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-24 08:45:25 UTC
Permalink
It seems self-evident that you lack the pre-requisite knowledge to
understand the statements you have already made that are reflected on your
www-page and that you are, without aptitude dictating the plausibility of
religious belief.

But one last question, I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you
feel the self-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you
have children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours
as ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
heroin importation?

- dolf

"Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:d4fr61$17ee$***@austarmetro.com.au...

"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
(note:
> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>
> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
> cease engaging in such abuses.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.
Could you repeat the question, and just one question at a time and relevant
to the ng please.

Thankyou
Carole


QOLON NOTE:
I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare (note:
I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.

I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
cease engaging in such abuses.

As I said, I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the
'arrogance and vanity' of your www-page {ie. as if burn some incense or
putting your oil burner on, and meditating is all there is to the meaning of
life}, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge is dictating the
plausibility of religious belief.

As I adhere to a teleological and autonomous view of religious belief,
thought and conscience which has no antagonism towards the principles of
sovereignty, head of state and autonomy of our Constitution [cf:
<http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif> ] and therefore
ought to be free from the coercion and abuses which is the conduct and
nature of Institutional religious and cultic mythical practice.

Consequently I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you feel the
seff-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you have
children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours as
ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
heroin importation.

I have also restored the newsgroups aus.politics and aus.tv.

- dolf

"Carole Hubbard" <***@iimetro.com.au> wrote in message
news:d4f3dh$u87$***@austarmetro.com.au...
I don't understand your interpretation of my religion webpage as "arrogance
and vanity".

I must have hit a nerve - sure got you fired up anyway.
What part of my webpage don't you understand, dolf?

...You think the bible makes sense?
...You don't believe in reincarnation?
...You a "born again" christian?
...Other?

QOLON NOTE:
Dear Carole,

Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?

"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]

"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]

Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]

There is perhaps another teleological explanation {

Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos

ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]

[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],

} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
Nature)}. These
contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.

The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]

- dolf
- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html

"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
911.
My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
element to them, designed to control people.
However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
they are.
But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
because I think they are all manipulative.
Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Wally Anglesea™
2005-04-24 22:55:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:45:25 GMT, "Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote:

>It seems self-evident that you lack the pre-requisite knowledge to
>understand the statements you have already made that are reflected on your
>www-page and that you are, without aptitude dictating the plausibility of
>religious belief.
>
>But one last question, I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you
>feel the self-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you
>have children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours
>as ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>heroin importation?



I note with Glee that Qolon could be shown to be abusive.

I STRONGLY recommend that Carole make a complaint to big pond,



>
>- dolf
>
>"Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:d4fr61$17ee$***@austarmetro.com.au...
>
>"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
>(note:
>> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>>
>> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>> cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.
>Could you repeat the question, and just one question at a time and relevant
>to the ng please.
>
>Thankyou
>Carole
>
>
>QOLON NOTE:
>I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare (note:
>I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>
>I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>As I said, I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the
>'arrogance and vanity' of your www-page {ie. as if burn some incense or
>putting your oil burner on, and meditating is all there is to the meaning of
>life}, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge is dictating the
>plausibility of religious belief.
>
>As I adhere to a teleological and autonomous view of religious belief,
>thought and conscience which has no antagonism towards the principles of
>sovereignty, head of state and autonomy of our Constitution [cf:
><http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif> ] and therefore
>ought to be free from the coercion and abuses which is the conduct and
>nature of Institutional religious and cultic mythical practice.
>
>Consequently I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you feel the
>seff-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you have
>children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours as
>ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>heroin importation.
>
>I have also restored the newsgroups aus.politics and aus.tv.
>
>- dolf
>
>"Carole Hubbard" <***@iimetro.com.au> wrote in message
>news:d4f3dh$u87$***@austarmetro.com.au...
>I don't understand your interpretation of my religion webpage as "arrogance
>and vanity".
>
>I must have hit a nerve - sure got you fired up anyway.
>What part of my webpage don't you understand, dolf?
>
>...You think the bible makes sense?
>...You don't believe in reincarnation?
>...You a "born again" christian?
>...Other?
>
>QOLON NOTE:
>Dear Carole,
>
>Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
>do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?
>
>"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
>should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
>years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
>experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
>cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
>this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
>supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]
>
>"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
>cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
>colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
>However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
>self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing ]
>
>Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
>referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
>grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
>document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
>of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
>thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably contains
>some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]
>
>There is perhaps another teleological explanation {
>
>Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
>Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J as
>'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
>2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos
>
>ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
>design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that purpose
>and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
>that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
>(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
>to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
>ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]
>
>[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],
>
>} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
>dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
>Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
>inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
>Nature)}. These
>contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
>antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.
>
>The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
>Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
>contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
>dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
>advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
>goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
>Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world history,
>it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
>purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
>'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
>unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
>defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]
>
>- dolf
>- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html
>
>"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
>911.
>My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
>element to them, designed to control people.
>However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
>religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
>its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
>they are.
>But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
>because I think they are all manipulative.
>Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
>put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
>that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.
>
>Carole
>http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Qolon
2005-04-24 23:35:05 UTC
Permalink
Where is my comment abusive?

It was in keeping with newsworthy events:

"A MIDNIGHT curfew for children under 15 would be introduced by a Liberal
state government to stamp out teenage violence and hooliganism. Children
found on the streets after midnight would be taken into custody by police.
Opposition Leader Robert Doyle will announce details today. Other law and
order steps include giving police new powers to disperse groups. Mr Doyle
will also announce plans for new laws to combat anti-social behaviour by
teenagers, including banning offenders from the scene of their crimes."
[Copyright 2005 and Courtesy: The Herald Sun 24 April 2005, By IAN
HABERFIELD and CARLY CRAWFORD, Liberals call for teen curfew
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15064653%255E2862,00.html ]

- dolf

"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:45:25 GMT, "Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote:

>It seems self-evident that you lack the pre-requisite knowledge to
>understand the statements you have already made that are reflected on your
>www-page and that you are, without aptitude dictating the plausibility of
>religious belief.
>
>But one last question, I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you
>feel the self-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you
>have children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours
>as ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>heroin importation?

I note with Glee that Qolon could be shown to be abusive.

I STRONGLY recommend that Carole make a complaint to big pond,



>
>- dolf
>
>"Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:d4fr61$17ee$***@austarmetro.com.au...
>
>"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
>(note:
>> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments,
harmful}.
>>
>> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>> cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.
>Could you repeat the question, and just one question at a time and relevant
>to the ng please.
>
>Thankyou
>Carole
>
>
>QOLON NOTE:
>I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
(note:
>I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>
>I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>As I said, I can't be enganging in codswallop Carole as I was quoting the
>'arrogance and vanity' of your www-page {ie. as if burn some incense or
>putting your oil burner on, and meditating is all there is to the meaning
of
>life}, where you are, without aptitude and knowledge is dictating the
>plausibility of religious belief.
>
>As I adhere to a teleological and autonomous view of religious belief,
>thought and conscience which has no antagonism towards the principles of
>sovereignty, head of state and autonomy of our Constitution [cf:
><http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif> ] and therefore
>ought to be free from the coercion and abuses which is the conduct and
>nature of Institutional religious and cultic mythical practice.
>
>Consequently I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you feel the
>seff-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you have
>children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours as
>ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>heroin importation.
>
>I have also restored the newsgroups aus.politics and aus.tv.
>
>- dolf
>
>"Carole Hubbard" <***@iimetro.com.au> wrote in message
>news:d4f3dh$u87$***@austarmetro.com.au...
>I don't understand your interpretation of my religion webpage as "arrogance
>and vanity".
>
>I must have hit a nerve - sure got you fired up anyway.
>What part of my webpage don't you understand, dolf?
>
>...You think the bible makes sense?
>...You don't believe in reincarnation?
>...You a "born again" christian?
>...Other?
>
>QOLON NOTE:
>Dear Carole,
>
>Given your 25 years cellsalts experience regarding abscure therapies, which
>do you prefer--colonic irrigation or cell salts?
>
>"I'm not a qualified health person and anybody with a medical condition
>should see their doctor. However, after using cell salts for over 25
>years I can indeed confirm that 'every pain or unpleasant sensation'
>experienced during this time has been alleviated by one or other of the
>cellsalts -- there is a definite a cause and effect relationship. Although
>this therapy isn't widely promoted there is a lot of scientific research
>supporting the value of nutrients where deficiencies exist." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/ ]
>
>"Colon Cleansing -- 90% of chronic ill-health has often been said by nature
>cure gurus to arise from a toxic colon. Colon cleansing in the form of
>colonic irrigation is often a useful tool in the road to good health.
>However, the same effect can be achieved with cellsalts. The bowel is
>self-cleaning once deficiencies are dealt with." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/nature_cure.htm#Colon%20Cleansing
]
>
>Given that you are so dismissive of the Scriptures teleological argument as
>referential integrity, your eclectic cacophony can best be taken with a
>grain or salt--which would you recommend? "The bible is a self-referential
>document i.e., it tells us that it is true. This goes against the precepts
>of sound logic. From Sinbad's Bullshit detector we find a lack of logical
>thinking in crediting the bible with the truth although it probably
contains
>some historical accounts which may be accurate." [cf:
>http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm ]
>
>There is perhaps another teleological explanation {
>
>Telos ('achariyth [Genesis 49:1]) = Arch (re'shiyth [Genesis 1:1]) + c² :
>Genesis/Arch as (22/7) 3W1D ... Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai as 50J + 12 x 6J
as
>'oth 294 year cycle + 3W1D = 6,000 (122J3W1D) years as Saturday 1 January
>2000 + solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days = Telos
>
>ie. the doctrine of final causes or purposes; the study of the evidence of
>design or purpose in nature; such design or purpose; the belief that
purpose
>and design are part of, or are apparent in, nature; the doctine in vitalism
>that phenomena are guided not only by mechanised forces but also by the end
>(telos) towards which they are moved; the doctrine that right and wrong are
>to be determined solely by the efficacy of actions in attaining desirable
>ends. [Courtesy: Macquarie Australian Dictionary 2005]
>
>[cf: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images/noumenon.gif ],
>
>} related to Hegel's philosophy of history which is essentially that of a
>dialectical progression from "an existing element {#1 - Nature contains
>Nature (#4 - Nature amended in its Nature)}, or thesis, with contradictions
>inherent to its structure {#2 - Nature rejoices in its Nature (#5 - Act of
>Nature)}. These
>contradictions unwittingly create the thesis' direct opposite, or
>antithesis, bringing about a period of conflict between the two.
>
>The new element, or synthesis {#3 - Nature surmounts Nature (#6 - Form of
>Nature)}, that emerges from this conflict then discovers its own internal
>contradictions, and starts the process anew. The reason the Hegelian
>dialectic is termed 'progressive' is because each new thesis represents an
>advance over the previous thesis, continually until an endpoint (or final
>goal) is reached {#4 - Nature amended in its Nature {#7 - Engendering
>Nature}}. To specifically apply this model to Hegel's view of world
history,
>it represents the manner in which the Spirit develops gradually into its
>purest form, ultimately recognizing its own essential freedom. To Hegel,
>'world history is thus the unfolding of Spirit in time, as nature is the
>unfolding of the Idea in space.' The dialectical process thus virtually
>defines the meaning of history for Hegel." [David Burrell, 1991]
>
>- dolf
>- http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/grapple.html
>
>"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>news:***@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>Yes, I've read that article which claims zionists were responsible for
>911.
>My opinion is that all religions are cults which have a man-made
>element to them, designed to control people.
>However, the facts are that there are many lovely people in some
>religions who draw a lot of strength from their faith. And obviously
>its not good to stop people from practising their religions, whatever
>they are.
>But personally, I don't believe in any religion and that is my choice
>because I think they are all manipulative.
>Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some incense or
>put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of life. So
>that's fine - I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.
>
>Carole
>http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Wally Anglesea™
2005-04-25 01:06:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:35:05 GMT, "Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote:

>Where is my comment abusive?

<SNIP> to this:

>>
>>But one last question, I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you
>>feel the self-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you
>>have children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours
>>as ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>>heroin importation?

I imagine you don't see that as abusive, but *I* do, and I imagine
others would.

Sauce for the goose, and all.



--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Qolon
2005-04-25 01:13:29 UTC
Permalink
When the poster themselves apologises for their abuse: "I'm sorry. I didn't
mean to engage in abuse" and you describe that individual as "remember, this
is coming from ME, who thinks you are a loon)" its hard to imagine why you
consider my comments abuse.

- dolf

"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
I imagine you don't see that as abusive, but *I* do, and I imagine others
would.

Sauce for the goose, and all.

QOLON NOTE:
Where is my comment abusive?

It was in keeping with newsworthy events:

"A MIDNIGHT curfew for children under 15 would be introduced by a Liberal
state government to stamp out teenage violence and hooliganism. Children
found on the streets after midnight would be taken into custody by police.
Opposition Leader Robert Doyle will announce details today. Other law and
order steps include giving police new powers to disperse groups. Mr Doyle
will also announce plans for new laws to combat anti-social behaviour by
teenagers, including banning offenders from the scene of their crimes."
[Copyright 2005 and Courtesy: The Herald Sun 24 April 2005, By IAN
HABERFIELD and CARLY CRAWFORD, Liberals call for teen curfew
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15064653%255E2862,00.html ]

- dolf


"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:31:38 +1000, "Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
>(note:
>> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments,
harmful}.
>>
>> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>> cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.

Carole, much as I think you are a chicken little, you are most
certainly NOT engaged in abuse. Have a look at the other messages
qolon posts.

Don't let him frighten you off. You are entitled to post your
opinions, questions and beliefs, just as anyone else is allowed to.

Don't let anyone try to stop freedom of speech. This is USENET.

(and remember, this is coming from ME, who thinks you are a loon). :-)

"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:45:25 GMT, "Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote:

>It seems self-evident that you lack the pre-requisite knowledge to
>understand the statements you have already made that are reflected on your
>www-page and that you are, without aptitude dictating the plausibility of
>religious belief.
>
>But one last question, I want to know in this lead up to ANZAC day, why you
>feel the self-indulgent need to violate our Constitutional freedoms--Do you
>have children and if so are these bastard and mongrelised children of yours
>as ignorant as the Australians in Bali who are presently facing charges of
>heroin importation?

I note with Glee that Qolon could be shown to be abusive.

I STRONGLY recommend that Carole make a complaint to big pond,
carole
2005-04-25 20:28:56 UTC
Permalink
You're right Wal, never seen a person more in need of an attitude
adjustment.

And on the subject of children, I'd pity any of his.
In my experience is people with kids learn to talk plain english and
blokes with wifes, usually have a bit more respect for women.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm
Kate Fights, I Cry
2005-04-24 09:34:32 UTC
Permalink
Hey Carole what's "Cell Salt" all about?
Wally Anglesea™
2005-04-24 22:54:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:31:38 +1000, "Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be any
>> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
>> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
>(note:
>> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
>> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments, harmful}.
>>
>> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
>> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to simply
>> cease engaging in such abuses.
>
>I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.

Carole, much as I think you are a chicken little, you are most
certainly NOT engaged in abuse. Have a look at the other messages
qolon posts.

Don't let him frighten you off. You are entitled to post your
opinions, questions and beliefs, just as anyone else is allowed to.

Don't let anyone try to stop freedom of speech. This is USENET.

(and remember, this is coming from ME, who thinks you are a loon). :-)






--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Carole
2005-04-25 20:48:00 UTC
Permalink
"Wally AngleseaT" <***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in
message news:***@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:31:38 +1000, "Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Qolon" <***@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> >news:xwEae.21774$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> I've repeated the original post for you Carole, so there ought not be
any
> >> confusion, nor the need for evasion as insincere questions nor the
> >> introduction of extraneous subjects on conspiracies within healthcare
> >(note:
> >> I can't recall you mentioning the manufacturing fraud committed by Pan
> >> Pharmaceuticals which rendered many supposed health suppliments,
harmful}.
> >>
> >> I'm simply asking you to either prove your statements are true, if they
> >> aren't or you lack the pre-requisite knowledge of the subject, to
simply
> >> cease engaging in such abuses.
> >
> >I'm sorry. I didn't mean to engage in abuse.
>
> Carole, much as I think you are a chicken little, you are most
> certainly NOT engaged in abuse. Have a look at the other messages
> qolon posts.
>
> Don't let him frighten you off. You are entitled to post your
> opinions, questions and beliefs, just as anyone else is allowed to.
>
> Don't let anyone try to stop freedom of speech. This is USENET.
>
> (and remember, this is coming from ME, who thinks you are a loon). :-)

You're right Wal and thanks for the words.
Qolon does seem to step over the boundaries of what would be considered
appropriate rules of engagement.
I partly excuse him because I think he is a religious nut who typically
thinks he has the right to act like it because the rest of the world is "of
the devil", to be denounced accordingly.

I got his number, right Qolon?

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Qolon
2005-04-25 21:54:02 UTC
Permalink
How illogical and irrational Carol, that you don't believe in any religion,
and realily agree with someone what calls you deficient, "But personally, I
don't believe in any religion and that is my choice because I think they are
all manipulative. Truth and logic is my religion, and I can still burn some
incense or put my oil burner on, and meditate on the larger meaning of
life." ["Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au>]

But that you believe in the devil--what then of the rest of the angels?

- dolf

"Carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:d4jqoq$2kme$***@austarmetro.com.au...
You're right Wal and thanks for the words.
Qolon does seem to step over the boundaries of what would be considered
appropriate rules of engagement.
I partly excuse him because I think he is a religious nut who typically
thinks he has the right to act like it because the rest of the world is "of
the devil", to be denounced accordingly.

I got his number, right Qolon?

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/religion.htm
Sunny
2005-04-21 23:11:43 UTC
Permalink
"carole" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Qolon, you're waffling - What are you are trying to say?
>
> There is a health conspiracy to keep people ignorant of nutritional
> remedies. Ever heard of scurvy or beri beri? --the tip of the iceberg.

Damn, somebody must have leaked the story about fresh fruit, vitamin C, and
balanced diet.
(Did it come from the conspiracy book about conspiracies) ?
John Iser
2005-03-15 12:03:55 UTC
Permalink
fasgnâ***@fukyoo.com.au (fasgnâdh) wrote in message
<***@news.dodo.com.au>:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 02:34:08 GMT, Wally Anglesea™
><***@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote in message
><***@4ax.com>:
[snip]
>>Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>
>Get away with what? Child abuse?
>
>So is it only True Catholics (like you) that should be able to "get
>away with it"?
>
Now *there* is a rationality-defying jump of logic. One would think
that you're an award-winning Net.Kook, with a statement like that.

Wait a minute... you *are* an award-winning Net.Kook:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7573/nk96.gif

>There's a self-admitted child abuse enabler, a regular poster to
>aus.politics, who may be able to add some perspective to this.
>
*yawn* Thanks for the high value you place on my opinions, though.

>He will be arriving shortly to contribute to this thread.

"Cuppla days, byoodiful". Hello Alan, you award-winning Net.Kook.

Here's something you might like to ponder:
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~petercb/trialdate.html
<QUOTE>
The following article was written by Erin O'Dwyer from The Illawarra
Mercury and was published on November 20th 2004.
<QUOTE-within-a-QUOTE>
June sex assault trial date for Little Pebble By Erin O'Dwyer
CAMBEWARRA cult leader William "Little Pebble" Kamm will stand trial
in June. (2005) NSW District Court Chief Judge Reg Blanch yesterday
ordered Kamm to stand trial on sexual assault charges on June 6. The
trial, in Sydney District Court, is expected to last four weeks.

Kamm has been charged with sexually assaulting two teenage followers,
aged 14 and 15, while they were members of his religious cult at
Cambewarra, near Nowra.

The 53-year-old has pleaded not guilty to all charges, including three
counts of sexual intercourse with a child under the age of 16, one
count of aggravated sexual intercourse with a child under 16, four
counts of aggravated indecent assault, one count of aggravated sexual
intercourse with a child under 16, four counts of aggravated indecent
assault and one count of attempting to commit an act of indecency.
</QUOTE-within-a-QUOTE>
</QUOTE>

Now, *if* he is found guilty of the *alleged* offences, and *if* you
aren't satisfied with the sentence the judge hands down - will you be
shrieking, as you have in the recent past:
Message-ID: <***@news.dodo.com.au>
"Any time when the legal system fails to hand down a punishment that
is appropriate to the seriousness of the crime, that is the time to
get out the rope and go looking for a sturdy tree or lamp-post."

...given your <guffaw> 'sincere' dislike of child molesters?

If not, why not? And don't give me any palaver about how you've 'come
to your senses'. It can't be done, because you've got no sense.
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 13:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>
>>
>> What's your interest in this ?
>
> I like to help people caught up in it.

why ?

>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>
> No.
>
> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?

Sounds like you want his position to me.
Horace Wachope
2005-03-14 13:24:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:18:13 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:02:49 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>
>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>
>why ?
>
>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>
>Sounds like you want his position to me.

Precisely what I was thinking.
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 21:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Horace Wachope wrote:
> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>> "Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>
>>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>>
>> why ?
>>
>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>
>> Sounds like you want his position to me.
>
> Precisely what I was thinking.

Exactly.
Wally Anglesea™
2005-03-14 23:17:36 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:32:42 +1100, "Ms LeeBee" <***@crikey.com.au>
wrote:

>Horace Wachope wrote:
>> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>> "Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>>
>>>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>>>
>>> why ?
>>>
>>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>
>>> Sounds like you want his position to me.
>>
>> Precisely what I was thinking.
>
>Exactly.
>
If you want to believe that, go ahead. There *are* people who have
non selfish motives. Then there are those who gripe from the sidelines
about everything, and are unwilling to get into the trenches.

--

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-15 03:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Wally AngleseaT wrote:
> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>> Horace Wachope wrote:
>>> "Ms LeeBee" <> wrote:
>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>> "Ms LeeBee" wrote:
>>>>>> Wally AngleseaT wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
>>>>>> http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's your interest in this ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I like to help people caught up in it.
>>>>
>>>> why ?
>>>>
>>>>>> Did you escape the cult or something ?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think I should just let him get away with it?
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like you want his position to me.
>>>
>>> Precisely what I was thinking.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
> If you want to believe that, go ahead. There *are* people who have
> non selfish motives. Then there are those who gripe from the sidelines
> about everything, and are unwilling to get into the trenches.

i've heard that rats live in trenches :(
Natalie
2005-03-14 00:04:55 UTC
Permalink
"Wally Anglesea™" wrote:
>
> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
> up when they can afford such clothing.

They aren't. The number of these types of people who sponge of charities
yet can afford alcohol and cigarettes is unbelievable. My next door
neighbour is a classic example, he sponges off all the local charities,
has two kids and is unemployed, yet he owns nothing, has a shit car, but
must be getting at least $7-800 a f/n in benefits. WTF he does with that
money other than spend it on cigs, grog and mull I have no idea. Not to
mention is forever in debt at the local pawn shop. But then he's not
very bright, so I doubt he has the ability to budget or see that forever
pawning the VCR, TV and Playstation is false economy.

Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
lost it all!) the night before. They're both on benefits, one is
schizophrenic, the other just disturbed.

Yes, my neighbours are tragic.

Natalie
Prodigy
2005-03-14 01:37:27 UTC
Permalink
> They aren't. The number of these types of people who sponge of charities
> yet can afford alcohol and cigarettes is unbelievable. My next door
> neighbour is a classic example, he sponges off all the local charities,
> has two kids and is unemployed, yet he owns nothing, has a shit car, but
> must be getting at least $7-800 a f/n in benefits. WTF he does with that
> money other than spend it on cigs, grog and mull I have no idea. Not to
> mention is forever in debt at the local pawn shop. But then he's not
> very bright, so I doubt he has the ability to budget or see that forever
> pawning the VCR, TV and Playstation is false economy.
>
> Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
> fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
> lost it all!) the night before. They're both on benefits, one is
> schizophrenic, the other just disturbed.
>
> Yes, my neighbours are tragic.

You don't live in Macquarie Fields do you? This isn't sarcasm, but it just
sounds like the type of people that live in this suburb.
Soixante Un Vieille Viande De Jour
2005-03-14 01:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Prodigy wrote:
>
> > They aren't. The number of these types of people who sponge of charities
> > yet can afford alcohol and cigarettes is unbelievable. My next door
> > neighbour is a classic example, he sponges off all the local charities,
> > has two kids and is unemployed, yet he owns nothing, has a shit car, but
> > must be getting at least $7-800 a f/n in benefits. WTF he does with that
> > money other than spend it on cigs, grog and mull I have no idea. Not to
> > mention is forever in debt at the local pawn shop. But then he's not
> > very bright, so I doubt he has the ability to budget or see that forever
> > pawning the VCR, TV and Playstation is false economy.
> >
> > Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
> > fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
> > lost it all!) the night before. They're both on benefits, one is
> > schizophrenic, the other just disturbed.
> >
> > Yes, my neighbours are tragic.
>
> You don't live in Macquarie Fields do you? This isn't sarcasm, but it just
> sounds like the type of people that live in this suburb.

What concerns me more is how she knows so much about her neighbours like
that.
Natalie
2005-03-14 02:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Prodigy wrote:
>
> You don't live in Macquarie Fields do you? This isn't sarcasm, but it just
> sounds like the type of people that live in this suburb.

No, but I do live right next door to a HC area, the only difference is I
don't live in HC, nor do I pay HC rent. I just have to deal with all the
crap that the people who DO live in HC, do to the place. When I moved in
three or so years ago, the rent was REALLY cheap, but has gone up
astronomically since then. If our public housing wasn't in the state it
is around here, these people would probably be living in it.

Who on earth decided to let people buy public housing? I see public
housing for rent at the estate agent, but who wants to pay market rates
to live in a housing commission area?

Natalie
Horace Wachope
2005-03-14 07:33:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:39:56 +1100, Natalie <***@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:

>Prodigy wrote:
>>
>> You don't live in Macquarie Fields do you? This isn't sarcasm, but it just
>> sounds like the type of people that live in this suburb.
>
>No, but I do live right next door to a HC area, the only difference is I
>don't live in HC, nor do I pay HC rent. I just have to deal with all the
>crap that the people who DO live in HC, do to the place. When I moved in
>three or so years ago, the rent was REALLY cheap, but has gone up
>astronomically since then. If our public housing wasn't in the state it
>is around here, these people would probably be living in it.
>
>Who on earth decided to let people buy public housing? I see public
>housing for rent at the estate agent, but who wants to pay market rates
>to live in a housing commission area?

You, apparently.
EEEK
2005-03-14 02:38:17 UTC
Permalink
It's the old story do they smoke and drink because they are poor or poor
because they smoke and drink?

I consider myself lucky because I could never master the drawback, at age 13
when I was introduced to smoking. So I never smoked.

Friends of mine who do smoke have an addiction hat is really difficult to
understand for a non smoker.

What is quite incredible is how intolerant people have become towards
smokers. I don't have a serious problem with smoking being banned from
public enclosed spaces but when you see the no smokers walk into a smoking
area and look at the smokers with absolute hatred it is very unsettling.




in article ***@iprimus.com.au, Natalie at
***@iprimus.com.au wrote on 14/3/05 11:04 AM:

> "Wally Anglesea™" wrote:
>>
>> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
>> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
>> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
>> up when they can afford such clothing.
>
> They aren't. The number of these types of people who sponge of charities
> yet can afford alcohol and cigarettes is unbelievable. My next door
> neighbour is a classic example, he sponges off all the local charities,
> has two kids and is unemployed, yet he owns nothing, has a shit car, but
> must be getting at least $7-800 a f/n in benefits. WTF he does with that
> money other than spend it on cigs, grog and mull I have no idea. Not to
> mention is forever in debt at the local pawn shop. But then he's not
> very bright, so I doubt he has the ability to budget or see that forever
> pawning the VCR, TV and Playstation is false economy.
>
> Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
> fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
> lost it all!) the night before. They're both on benefits, one is
> schizophrenic, the other just disturbed.
>
> Yes, my neighbours are tragic.
>
> Natalie
Arfur Moo
2005-03-14 06:51:29 UTC
Permalink
On Monday 14 March 2005 at 13:38:17 +1100, EEEK at
<***@lidemailaddressinanewsgroup.com> wrote in
<BE5B4449.26D1EA%***@lidemailaddressinanewsgroup.com>:

> It's the old story do they smoke and drink because they are poor or poor
> because they smoke and drink?
>

That remind me of a funny story that came to us one evening from the lips of
the late Dave Allen. The punchline was "Piston broke". Perhaps someone will
post a transcript of the story.

>

<snipping>

>

--
Arfur Moo
Arfur Moo
2005-03-14 07:02:38 UTC
Permalink
(Oops. My fingers were ungrammatical a few minutes ago when I sent the first
version of this message. Try the present version instead.)

On Monday 14 March 2005 at 13:38:17 +1100, EEEK at
<***@lidemailaddressinanewsgroup.com> wrote in
<BE5B4449.26D1EA%***@lidemailaddressinanewsgroup.com>:

> It's the old story do they smoke and drink because they are poor or poor
> because they smoke and drink?
>

That reminds me of a funny story that came to us one evening from the lips of
the late Dave Allen. The punchline was "Piston broke". Perhaps someone will
post a transcript of the story.

>

<snipping>

>

--
Arfur Moo
HeadRush
2005-03-14 05:39:44 UTC
Permalink
"Natalie" <***@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:***@iprimus.com.au...
>
> Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
> fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
> lost it all!) the night before.

You've hit on what I think is a major contributor to the whole HC problem -
at the parent level. Poker machines are the bane of the housy community.

The parents go to the club/pub for a cheap meal and drinks and while they're
at, throw some dollars into the pokies. Most end up degenerating into
pathetically addicted gamblers, waiting on dole-day to once again try and
double their money. But it never happens and the downward cycle continues.
Hocking their possessions becomes the only way to put food on the table.

Meanwhile, as mum and dad are at the pub or club punching their money into
the pokies, the kids are roaming the streets and they slowly degenerate into
what we are seeing on TV.

HR
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-14 22:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Natalie wrote:
> "Wally AngleseaT" wrote:
>>
>> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
>> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
>> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
>> up when they can afford such clothing.
>
> They aren't. The number of these types of people who sponge of
> charities yet can afford alcohol and cigarettes is unbelievable. My
> next door neighbour is a classic example, he sponges off all the
> local charities, has two kids and is unemployed, yet he owns nothing,
> has a shit car, but must be getting at least $7-800 a f/n in
> benefits. WTF he does with that money other than spend it on cigs,
> grog and mull I have no idea. Not to mention is forever in debt at
> the local pawn shop. But then he's not very bright, so I doubt he has
> the ability to budget or see that forever pawning the VCR, TV and
> Playstation is false economy.
>
> Then there's the two girls, I was talking to them one day and I almost
> fell over when they said they had put $500 into a poker machine (and
> lost it all!) the night before. They're both on benefits, one is
> schizophrenic, the other just disturbed.
>
> Yes, my neighbours are tragic.

and you talk to them ?

I'd be wiping them off my Manolo's as I scooted by, fast.
Natalie
2005-03-15 00:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Ms LeeBee wrote:
>
>
> and you talk to them ?
>
> I'd be wiping them off my Manolo's as I scooted by, fast.

I live in a block of units, there's no getting around them, I avoid them
as much as possible though.

Natalie
Ms LeeBee
2005-03-15 03:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Natalie wrote:
> Ms LeeBee wrote:
>>
>>
>> and you talk to them ?
>>
>> I'd be wiping them off my Manolo's as I scooted by, fast.
>
> I live in a block of units, there's no getting around them, I avoid
> them as much as possible though.

I moved from a nice upstairs unit once, due to the psycho that moved
downstairs and glommed onto me as her new best buddy. I used to have to
turn out the lights to pretend I wasn't home, and try to come & go when I
knew she and her psycho boyfriend weren't around.
Pellegrino
2005-03-14 08:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Wally Anglesea™ wrote:

> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard up when they can afford such clothing.

Slightly OT (not Macquarie Fields related anyhow) but I remember one of
the Today Current Tonight Affair shows took their cameras down to
Lakemba after Sept. 11th and asked some of the locals their views. One
guy "of Middle-eastern appearance" (that'll get me in the shit with the
PC brigade) claimed that the US was getting it's come-uppance for all
the military and cultural imperialism over the decades.

He said this straight-faces whilst clothed in an Adidas sweatshirt, a
Tommy H cap and Nike tracky dacks, and holding a can of Coke.
Darkfalz
2005-03-14 08:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Clever fellow. Probably a relative of damnfine.
Paul
2005-03-14 11:43:17 UTC
Permalink
Pellegrino wrote:
> Wally Anglesea™ wrote:
>
>> I'd also add that *my* children don't wear the costly branded clothes
>> that several of the young members of the community you allowed to get
>> their heads on television wear. Hard for me to believe they are hard
>> up when they can afford such clothing.
>
>
> Slightly OT (not Macquarie Fields related anyhow) but I remember one of
> the Today Current Tonight Affair shows took their cameras down to
> Lakemba after Sept. 11th and asked some of the locals their views. One
> guy "of Middle-eastern appearance" (that'll get me in the shit with the
> PC brigade) claimed that the US was getting it's come-uppance for all
> the military and cultural imperialism over the decades.
>
> He said this straight-faces whilst clothed in an Adidas sweatshirt, a
> Tommy H cap and Nike tracky dacks, and holding a can of Coke.
A perfect example of "cultural imperialism" !!
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