Discussion:
Shia vs Sunni
(too old to reply)
Ned Latham
2017-04-11 21:35:55 UTC
Permalink
FYI
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/soc.culture.british/
5CyBO-O8JO0/4FOmuFyLBgAJ
What separates Sunnis from Shi'as is a succession dispute that
erupted after the death of Mohammed in 632 AD. Those who accepted
Abu Bakr, Mohammed's father-in-law, as the rightful successor
became known as Sunnis. Those who believed that Ali, Mohammed's
son-in-law, was the proper successor became known as Shi'ites.
They've been at each other's throats ever since.
Ah. The glories of the religion pf peave.
Conflict between Shi'a and Sunni in one country induces conflict
between the same two groups in other countries. It happens easily,
almost spontaneously, because the differences between the two
traditions are not details, like sprinkle- vs. full-immersion
baptism in Christianity.
Not true. When Christianity had the power, its various sects made
war on each other just as ferociously as Islamists did and do.
The differences are absolutes.
In both cults. In Judaism too.
In the
last 1,400 years no one has been able to reconcile them. Should
a would-be ecumenical appear, he wouldn't be alive very long.
Archbishop of Canterbury: "'Although we owe much to Islam handing
on to the West many of the treasures of Greek thought,"
We "owe" tham in the very weakest way. It was the Persians who kept
the achievements of the ancient Greeks fresh and lively for the
centuries after Justinian's proscription of pagan teaching, and it
was Islamised Persians who wrote the compendia that were the sources
The Archbishop is referring to.
"the beginnings of calculus, Aristotelian thought during the period
known in the West as the dark ages,"
Despite the work of those sIlamised Persian scholars in the ninth
to eleventh centuries, Islam *is* a dark "age".
"it is sad to relate that no great invention has come for many
hundred years from Muslim countries."
He's wrong there. No great invention has *ever* come from any
Muslim country.
He attacked the 'glaring absence' of democracy in Muslim countries,
There is NO democracy in the modern world.
suggested that they had contributed little of major significance
to world culture for centuries and criticized the Islamic faith.
http://tinyurl.com/hbcnwem
And guess what, people? He's RIGHT.
Mostly.
The West left Islam in the dust when religion and science split
and took their separate paths. The result was the Renaissance,
the Reformation, and the Age of Enlightenment, things that the
Muslim world has yet to experience.
Prediction: will bever exoerience.
Sure, they gave civilization
Samarkand and Damascus and Cordoba,
Greek architecture with Islamic decoration. The church/mosque/museum
of Hagia Sophia surpasses them all.
but for Europeans those were
just springboards to better things. The mullahs seemed to be quite
content being forever stuck in a time warp c.700 AD...
That's where their power lies.
Pelican
2017-04-11 21:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Latham
The West left Islam in the dust when religion and science split
and took their separate paths. The result was the Renaissance,
the Reformation, and the Age of Enlightenment, things that the
Muslim world has yet to experience.
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
Post by Ned Latham
Prediction: will bever exoerience.
Sure, they gave civilization
Samarkand and Damascus and Cordoba,
Greek architecture with Islamic decoration. The church/mosque/museum
of Hagia Sophia surpasses them all.
That would be Roman architecture and eastern Roman decoration, so far as
the Byzantine world is concerned. The Greeks did nothing in the
centuries after the collapse of Alexander's empire. The Romans were
another matter.

So far as Constantinople is concerned, Islamic architecture and
decoration becomes important, but you two ignorant buffoons have never
been out from in front of your televisions.

but for Europeans those were
Post by Ned Latham
just springboards to better things. The mullahs seemed to be quite
content being forever stuck in a time warp c.700 AD...
See? Never been anywhere in western or eastern Europe or the middle
east. If either of you had, you would not be posing such arrant nonsense.
Post by Ned Latham
That's where their power lies.
Obviously you have never been there. Go on, admit it.
Byker
2017-04-11 23:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Pelican
2017-04-12 00:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
Ned Latham
2017-04-12 09:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
That's lame, Lamer. Do you really expect to distract from the topic
with such peurile pap>
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Archbishop of Canterbury: "'Although we owe much to Islam handing
on to the West many of the treasures of Greek thought,"
We "owe" tham in the very weakest way. It was the Persians who kept
the achievements of the ancient Greeks fresh and lively for the
centuries after Justinian's proscription of pagan teaching, and it
was Islamised Persians who wrote the compendia that were the sources
The Archbishop is referring to.
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
"it is sad to relate that no great invention has come for many
hundred years from Muslim countries."
He's wrong there. No great invention has *ever* come from any
Muslim country.

Contest *that*, you lowlife lying dirtbag.
Pelican
2017-04-12 11:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
That's lame, Lamer. Do you really expect to distract from the topic
with such peurile pap>
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Archbishop of Canterbury: "'Although we owe much to Islam handing
on to the West many of the treasures of Greek thought,"
We "owe" tham in the very weakest way. It was the Persians who kept
the achievements of the ancient Greeks fresh and lively for the
centuries after Justinian's proscription of pagan teaching, and it
was Islamised Persians who wrote the compendia that were the sources
The Archbishop is referring to.
You clearly don't know, so I'll give you some basics. Those "treasures
of Greek thought" were essentially Athenian. There was no "Greece"
until the revolution in the 1820's.

Meanwhile, those "treasures" were preserved by the residue of
Alexander's empire. In turn, that residue was taken over by the Romans,
who had no trouble taking over the whole area. Islam didn't exist at
that stage.

The Romans, and the eastern Roman empire which included all of ancient
Greece, preserved those treasures. The eastern Roman empire continued
until the 15th century, by which time the Islam did exist.

The point is that it is utter bullshit to give any credibility to a
fuckwit like an Archbishop of Canterbury. The English view of the
eastern Roman empire was for centuries that it wasn't worth anything,
which was rather the western European view. The result was that it
disappeared instantly in 1453.

It is only in relatively recent times that western Europeans have begun
to understand the importance of the eastern Roman empire. Those
Islamised Persians were not involved in handing anything on.
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
"it is sad to relate that no great invention has come for many
hundred years from Muslim countries."
He's wrong there. No great invention has *ever* come from any
Muslim country.
Contest *that*, you lowlife lying dirtbag.
I'll contest what I please. Now, GAGF, you shit-fer-brains job.
Ned Latham
2017-04-12 14:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
That's lame, Lamer. Do you really expect to distract from the topic
with such peurile pap>
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Archbishop of Canterbury: "'Although we owe much to Islam handing
on to the West many of the treasures of Greek thought,"
We "owe" tham in the very weakest way. It was the Persians who kept
the achievements of the ancient Greeks fresh and lively for the
centuries after Justinian's proscription of pagan teaching, and it
was Islamised Persians who wrote the compendia that were the sources
The Archbishop is referring to.
You clearly don't know, so I'll give you some basics.
Those "treasures of Greek thought" were essentially Athenian.
Wrong, again, idiot. The earliest came from Ionia. After Alexander
the so-called Great, Alexandria and Pergamon joined Athens as major
centres of learning. After Flaminius, Rome began edging unto the
group and after Diocletian, Constantinople did too.
Post by Pelican
There was no "Greece" until the revolution in the 1820's.
Who said anything about "Greece", moron?

Remaining malinformed babble treated as it deserves:

----snip----
Post by Pelican
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
"it is sad to relate that no great invention has come for many
hundred years from Muslim countries."
He's wrong there. No great invention has *ever* come from any
Muslim country.
Contest *that*, you lowlife lying dirtbag.
I'll contest what I please.
So you can't. Why am I not surprised?
Post by Pelican
Now, GAGF, you shit-fer-brains job.
That might be credible if you had a rational point of view, and
if I were as idiotic and ignorant as you are, and if you were as
intellihent and well-ongotmed as I am...

But you haven't, and I ain't, and you ain't.
So the shitferbrains yob has to be you.
Ned Latham
2017-04-12 14:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Post by Pelican
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
The Industrial Revolution, the Atomic Age, the Space Age, etc.
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
That's lame, Lamer. Do you really expect to distract from the topic
with such peurile pap>
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
Archbishop of Canterbury: "'Although we owe much to Islam handing
on to the West many of the treasures of Greek thought,"
We "owe" tham in the very weakest way. It was the Persians who kept
the achievements of the ancient Greeks fresh and lively for the
centuries after Justinian's proscription of pagan teaching, and it
was Islamised Persians who wrote the compendia that were the sources
The Archbishop is referring to.
You clearly don't know, so I'll give you some basics.
Those "treasures of Greek thought" were essentially Athenian.
Wrong, again, idiot. The earliest came from Ionia. After Alexander
the so-called Great, Alexandria and Pergamon joined Athens as major
centres of learning. After Flaminius, Rome began edging unto the
group and after Diocletian, Constantinople did too.
Post by Pelican
There was no "Greece" until the revolution in the 1820's.
Who said anything about "Greece", moron?

Remaining malinformed babble treated as it deserves:

----snip----
Post by Pelican
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Post by Byker
"it is sad to relate that no great invention has come for many
hundred years from Muslim countries."
He's wrong there. No great invention has *ever* come from any
Muslim country.
Contest *that*, you lowlife lying dirtbag.
I'll contest what I please.
So you can't. Why am I not surprised?
Post by Pelican
Now, GAGF, you shit-fer-brains job.
That might be credible if you had a rational point of view, and
if I were as idiotic and ignorant as you are, and if you were as
intelligent and well-informed as I am...

But you haven't, and I ain't, and you ain't.
So the shitferbrains yob has to be you.
Byker
2017-04-12 18:45:39 UTC
Permalink
The English view of the eastern Roman empire was for centuries that it
wasn't worth anything, which was rather the western European view. The
result was that it disappeared instantly in 1453.
"Instantly" after a thousand years?
Byker
2017-04-12 18:43:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Missed the assorted revolutions, colonialism, assorted wars, communism,
two world wars, fascism, socialism, in your course of european
civilisation 101 at kindy, did you? Or were you sick that day?
Look forward to the day when the asslifters have their revolutions,
colonialism, assorted wars, communism, two world wars, fascism, and
socialism. Enjoy the fireworks...
Petzl
2017-04-12 00:01:16 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 07:56:42 +1000, Pelican
Post by Pelican
Post by Ned Latham
The West left Islam in the dust when religion and science split
and took their separate paths. The result was the Renaissance,
the Reformation, and the Age of Enlightenment, things that the
Muslim world has yet to experience.
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
Post by Ned Latham
Prediction: will bever exoerience.
Sure, they gave civilization
Samarkand and Damascus and Cordoba,
Greek architecture with Islamic decoration. The church/mosque/museum
of Hagia Sophia surpasses them all.
That would be Roman architecture and eastern Roman decoration, so far as
the Byzantine world is concerned. The Greeks did nothing in the
centuries after the collapse of Alexander's empire. The Romans were
another matter.
So far as Constantinople is concerned, Islamic architecture and
decoration becomes important, but you two ignorant buffoons have never
been out from in front of your televisions.
but for Europeans those were
Post by Ned Latham
just springboards to better things. The mullahs seemed to be quite
content being forever stuck in a time warp c.700 AD...
See? Never been anywhere in western or eastern Europe or the middle
east. If either of you had, you would not be posing such arrant nonsense.
Post by Ned Latham
That's where their power lies.
Obviously you have never been there. Go on, admit it.
Shiites believe Mohammad was poisoined by his enslaved Jewish woman
Zeynab.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Circumstances_Surrounding_Muhammad%27s_Death
The suspision is Aisha was in a adulterous relationship with Mohammads
favourite "commander" "Safwan ibn Muattal". Both supplied the poison
to Zeynab.

Sunni's believe Aisha to be "Mother of the Believers' and the Shiites
are slanderers.
--
Petzl
Mark Latham's Outsiders
https://support.marklathamsoutsiders.com
Ned Latham
2017-04-12 09:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
The West left Islam in the dust when religion and science split
and took their separate paths. The result was the Renaissance,
the Reformation, and the Age of Enlightenment, things that the
Muslim world has yet to experience.
So, nothing happened in the west after that age of enlightenment, eh?
Where'd you get *that* idiot idea?
Post by Pelican
Prediction: will never exoerience.
Sure, they gave civilization Samarkand and Damascus and Cordoba,
Greek architecture with Islamic decoration. The church/mosque/museum
of Hagia Sophia surpasses them all.
That would be Roman architecture and eastern Roman decoration,
Most of what the Romans did was Greek, you ignorant clown.
Post by Pelican
so far as the Byzantine world is concerned.
Irrelevant as to Samarkand and Damascus and Cordoba. Wrong as to the
"Byzantine" era.
Post by Pelican
The Greeks did nothing in the
centuries after the collapse of Alexander's empire.
False. Thjey were the primary producers of "Roman" architecture,
statuary, medicine, science, the originators of Roman philosphy
and performing arts... Get your blinkers off.
Post by Pelican
The Romans were another matter.
The "Byzantine" Empire was Greek. They spoke Greek and wrote in Greek.
They called themselves Rhomaioi, which is Greek, because they were the
inheritors of the rump of the Roman Empire. Modern historians call it
"Byzantine" because "Roman" doesn't fit because everything but the name
was Greek, and "Greek" doesn't fit because its roots were Roman.

Their enenies, the Persians and the Arabs, and later the Turks, called
them "Greeks".
Post by Pelican
So far as Constantinople is concerned, Islamic architecture and
decoration becomes important, but you two ignorant buffoons have
never been out from in front of your televisions.
Point to anything that you think might surpass Hagia Sophia, moron.
Post by Pelican
but for Europeans those were
just springboards to better things. The mullahs seemed to be quite
content being forever stuck in a time warp c.700 AD...
See? Never been anywhere in western or eastern Europe or the middle
east.
What's that got to do with anything?
Post by Pelican
If either of you had, you would not be posing such arrant nonsense.
Let's see something that actually does contest what I've said, moron.
Post by Pelican
That's where their power lies.
Obviously you have never been there. Go on, admit it.
Obviously you haven't taken your brain out of the box. Go on, do it.
Pelican
2017-04-12 11:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Obviously I haven't taken my brain out of the box. Go on, do it.
You need it, you do it, dimwit.
Ned Latham
2017-04-12 14:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Obviously I haven't taken my brain out of the box. Go on, do it.
You need it, you do it, dimwit.
[The Greeld} were the primary producers of "Roman" architecture,
statuary, medicine, science, the originators of Roman philosphy
and performing arts... Get your blinkers off.
amd:

The "Byzantine" Empire was Greek. They spoke Greek and wrote in Greek.
They called themselves Rhomaioi, which is Greek, because they were the
inheritors of the rump of the Roman Empire. Modern historians call it
"Byzantine" because "Roman" doesn't fit because everything but the name
was Greek, and "Greek" doesn't fit because its roots were Roman.

Their enenies, the Persians and the Arabs, and later the Turks, called
them "Greeks".

and:

Obviously you haven't taken your brain out of the box. Go on, do it.

And here's a little something else I wrote, just for Shitferbrains:

Shitferbrains Wrongfloor knocked upon the wrong door
Looking for the guy who hands out brains,
The guy inside was weary, tired-eyed and bleary,
He'd spent the whole night mucking out the drains.

The knocking brought his head up; he spat and looked real fed up,
He pressed the button to release the door.
It opened smooth and easy, and then in walked the sleazy
Little Shitferbrains, who'd been there once before.

Now it's true that if he'd been feeling okay he'd have seen
That the little troll before him wasn't new;
He'd have said "go one floor up" instead of reaching for the cup
He used for ladling out each body's share of poo.

But he was feeling really crook, and he didn't even look,
Just said "open up" and filled the cup with shit,
And the troll opened its head, as the program in it said,
And the contents of the cup went into it.

Well, you should have seen the grin on Inspector Wheeliebin,
When the troll arrived at the inspection stage,
"We've got a ripe one here: shit from ear to bloody ear.
Guess we'll have to put it in an airtight cage".

But it didn't go that way, though they argued it all day,
In the end they figured that they'd let him go.
So they said "Hey Shitferbrains! never stand in front of trains,
Coz the mess would be disgusting doncha know".
Pelican
2017-04-12 22:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Latham
Post by Pelican
Obviously I haven't taken my brain out of the box. Go on, do it.
You need it, you do it, dimwit.
[The Greeld} were the primary producers of "Roman" architecture,
statuary, medicine, science, the originators of Roman philosphy
and performing arts... Get your blinkers off.
The "Byzantine" Empire was Greek. They spoke Greek and wrote in Greek.
They called themselves Rhomaioi, which is Greek, because they were the
inheritors of the rump of the Roman Empire. Modern historians call it
"Byzantine" because "Roman" doesn't fit because everything but the name
was Greek, and "Greek" doesn't fit because its roots were Roman.
Their enenies, the Persians and the Arabs, and later the Turks, called
them "Greeks".
Obviously I haven't taken my brain out of the box.
The usual lying bullshit from shit-fer-brains.
Ned Latham
2017-04-13 08:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pelican
Obviously I haven't taken my brain out of the box. Go on, do it.
You need it, you do it, dimwit.
[The Greeld} were the primary producers of "Roman" architecture,
statuary, medicine, science, the originators of Roman philosphy
and performing arts... Get your blinkers off.
amd:

The "Byzantine" Empire was Greek. They spoke Greek and wrote in Greek.
They called themselves Rhomaioi, which is Greek, because they were the
inheritors of the rump of the Roman Empire. Modern historians call it
"Byzantine" because "Roman" doesn't fit because everything but the name
was Greek, and "Greek" doesn't fit because its roots were Roman.

Their enenies, the Persians and the Arabs, and later the Turks, called
them "Greeks".

and:

Obviously you haven't taken your brain out of the box. Go on, do it.

And here's a little something else I wrote, just for Shitferbrains:

Shitferbrains Wrongfloor knocked upon the wrong door
Looking for the guy who hands out brains,
The guy inside was weary, tired-eyed and bleary,
He'd spent the whole night mucking out the drains.

The knocking brought his head up; he spat and looked real fed up,
He pressed the button to release the door.
It opened smooth and easy, and then in walked the sleazy
Little Shitferbrains, who'd been there once before.

Now it's true that if he'd been feeling okay he'd have seen
That the little troll before him wasn't new;
He'd have said "go one floor up" instead of reaching for the cup
He used for ladling out each body's share of poo.

But he was feeling really crook, and he didn't even look,
Just said "open up" and filled the cup with shit,
And the troll opened its head, as the program in it said,
And the contents of the cup went into it.

Well, you should have seen the grin on Inspector Wheeliebin,
When the troll arrived at the inspection stage,
"We've got a ripe one here: shit from ear to bloody ear.
Guess we'll have to put it in an airtight cage".

But it didn't go that way, though they argued it all day,
In the end they figured that they'd let him go.
So they said "Hey Shitferbrains! never stand in front of trains,
Coz the mess would be disgusting doncha know".

Byker
2017-04-12 18:53:05 UTC
Permalink
They were not at each others throats until, the British took over the area
and created a whole bunch of nations....drawing lines that would divide
people on rules designed to create "never ending" conflict....100 years it
all started...
They've been warring against each other along tribal lines since antiquity,
long before European cartographers drew their maps...
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