Post by Fran Post by Dechucka Post by Dechucka Post by Dechucka Post by Dechucka Post by Fran Post by Dechucka Post by Fran Post by Dechucka Post by Fran Post by Dechucka
BTW the legislation ensuring privacy and proper use of the
app by the Government will be enacted - sometime.
Unless Greg Hunt can pass legislation by himself those are
No, it's not a Regulation.
or more importantly Legislation. I read the Explanatory
Statement and you are correct it is a determination under the
Biosecurity Act 2015
My point stands
Sure it does.......
"BTW the legislation ensuring privacy and proper use of the app
by the Government will be enacted - sometime." is a correct comment.
Not necessarily. They have said there will be legislation and
that will probably happen, and it'd be better if it wa sin place
as that is significantly harder to change but as it stands, the
Determination gives the sort of protections that were promised.
I disagree because it can be rescinded much easier then legislation
but accept your point as it would be political suicide and would
ruin the app's usage if it was rescinded.
?????? I said that legislation will probably happen and I was
making no point about the Determination being rescinded. I can't
see any reason for that to happen. It's jsut another form of
guarantee. I was trying to tell you that the Determination gives
the same protection as legislation BUT, it IS easier to change as it
is a Ministerial Determination.
Post by Dechucka
Post by Dechucka
Legislation has been put in place by Parliament in relation to
the app as promised. All we have is a determination that Hunt may
be able to withdraw as easily as HE put it in place.
Indeed, he can change it easily at any time but you're currently
counting chickens where you only have eggs.
I'm just pointing out that the promised legislation and the
promised code are both going to be delivered in the future when the
app, obviously, is on people's phones
And I was pointing out that legislation may happen but Determination
already does what Legislation may cover. Not that I can see it
matters if either of those things happen for the people who declare
that they won't be downloading it anyway.
just makes.me feel happier with my decision not to download it
:-)) You look fetching in that tin foil hat.
No paranoia it is just that we haven't been given the information
promised and given this governments track record with implementing
computer systems I wouldn't trust them till the unintended consequences
Remember it's not paranoia if THEY are out to get you
True, but I really do doubt that anyone is (or will be) out to get the
few bits of info the app will give or crack into it for nefarious means
and especially as its been reverse engineered now by a number of techies
But I' still wasn't concerned before they did that as all info is held
on the phone. That changes only to be accessible to the Health people
(or these mythical snoopers) after there has been notification to a
person's phone that they've been within that 1.5 m range for 15 minutes
of a covid-19 sufferer AND the contacted person has subsequently given
approval for their last 21 days of contact to be uploaded.
The chances of that happening is fairly low anyway I think but to go
even further for someone to actually want to snoop on such info is, IMO
probably less than zero because it all promises to be boring in the
extreme. Phone message comes through: Minnie Mouse (really Fran) was in
contact with Mary Kathleen for 25 minutes on Tuesday the 3rd. Go get a
covid-19 test! Big bloody deal! Mary Kathleen has already rung me and
told me she has Covid-19!
But of course ASIO, ASIS, ASD, AGO, DIO find this info scintillating and
have hacked into the information at the State level and have shared it
with the rest of the Five Eyes....... In a pig's ear....
Post by Dechucka
Once the code has been looked at and the legislation in place + time has
occurred to iron out any problems I may reconsider.
Correction: You might reconsider once you figure out that your life is
as interesting and event laden as mine and other apps on your phone and
your computer say far more interesting thing to spooks and scammers than
the few things that the app does.
Here is is a couple of them:
Do security experts still have concerns about the COVIDSafe app?
Security experts do still have concerns about the COVIDSafe app. As for whether those security concerns should stop you from installing the app, experts say it really depends on your individual circumstances. Here's why.
Last week, before the app was released, The Feed spoke to privacy expert Professor Dali Kaafar, who is the Executive Director of the Optus Macquarie University Cyber Security Hub. Professor Kaafar outlined a number of the privacy concerns raised by an app like COVIDSafe, many of which still apply to the app today.
One key concern raised by Kaafar and other experts is the fact that data collected by the app will be uploaded to a central server. As Professor Kaafar told The Feed, whoever has access to the central server of an app like this has access to a huge amount of information. If that server is hacked, or accessed by someone malicious, there's a lot they can do with this information.
Covid - 19
Privacy experts are concerned about the government’s coronavirus tracing app. Here’s why.
Since the app's release, other privacy experts like ANU Associate Professor Vanessa Teague have pointed out other concerning information that the app records and shares. For instance, the Australian app stores the make and model of the different phones and devices it encounters in plain text, readable to anyone with access to the phone and a little tech savvy.
"Although it may seem innocuous, the exact phone model of a person's contacts could be extremely revealing information," Teague and colleagues wrote in a blog post on Monday.
"Suppose for example that a person wishes to understand whether another person whose phone they have access to has visited some particular mutual acquaintance. The controlling person could read the (plaintext) logs of COVID Safe and detect whether the phone models matched their hypothesis."
"Although not very useful for suggesting a particular identity, it would be very valuable in confirming or refuting a theory of having met with a particular person."
New blog post with best-effort analysis of decompiled Covid Safe App.https://github.com/vteague/contactTracing …
Joint work with @chrisculnane @noneuclideangrl and @rgmerk.#covid19australia #COVID19au #auspol
ForkingTraceTogether. Contribute to vteague/contactTracing development by creating an account on GitHub.
11:15 AM - Apr 27, 2020
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Professor Kaafar is also concerned that the central authority may receive more information than a user realises. As Kaafar explained, if Person A is diagnosed with coronavirus and consents to upload their contacts, they may reveal that they recently hung out with Person B and Person C. The central authority now knows that Person B and Person C met, but neither of those people are necessarily aware that this information has been shared.
This, Professor Kaafar says, is where individual circumstances come in.
"This information might not really be sensitive for lots of people, but it might be really important for others. For example, two politicians from two different political parties who are meeting, or a journalist and a politician meeting."
Professor Kaafar says that many of these privacy issues could be fixed by relatively small changes to the app; an international coalition of experts has also pointed out that it's possible to create a tracing app that does not upload information to a central authority at all.
Until those changes are made, Professor Kaafar told The Feed he personally will not be installing the app, but he's not quite sure what to advise other Australians to do.
"Whether I would be recommending installing it or not, I really don't know -- I actually find it to be a really tricky question," he said.
"I think the government has taken some privacy considerations into perspective, but it didn't hit some of the major ones. It did try to have some good intentions, though, for example to make sure that the location is not collected, and that the data will definitely be removed after 21 days."
"I think one important thing is that privacy is very personal. Some co-location information might be really sensitive for some people, and for others it might be completely irrelevant."
"I can't really give a binary recommendation here, but I will be sitting and waiting. We need a little more transparency on the tech and legislative aspects."
Should I install COVIDSafe?
Here's the upshot. The COVIDSafe app was rushed for a reason: we're in the midst of a pandemic. If we want to start opening up society again, being able to quickly identify anyone who may have been exposed to a new case of COVID-19 is crucial.
If enough Australians download this app and use it correctly, it's possible that it will really help out in this regard. But in order for the app to be effective, the government says at least 40 per cent of Australians need to be using it, if not more. That's close to 10 million people who need to sign up; as of Monday evening, we have just shy of two million.
Your personal decision about whether to use the app will probably hinge on what privacy means to you -- and as Professor Kaafar stressed, this is a personal call.
"What frustrates me the most in this sort of debate is putting this as a dilemma between 'helping people' and 'privacy'," he said. "It's really very bad to be positioning this as if people who care about privacy are selfish, while the others are okay."
David Vaile is the Stream lead for data protection and surveillance at the Allens Hub for Technology, Law and Innovation at UNSW. "In principle for something like this that potentially creates a centralised store of social graph information, reliant on legal and technical fixes for protection, you would advise caution," he said. "The public health concerns are however also very important, which is why it is hard."
If you ultimately decide that COVIDSafe isn't for you right now, remember that there's potential for plenty of this to change as the app is updated and improved. We'll keep you posted as that happens.
People in Australia must stay at least 1.5 metres away from others and gatherings are limited to two people unless you are with your family or household.
If you believe you may have contracted the virus, call your doctor (don't visit) or contact the national Coronavirus Health Information Hotline on 1800 020 080. If you are struggling to breathe or experiencing a medical emergency, call 000.
SBS is committed to informing Australia's diverse communities about the latest COVID-19 developments. News and information is available in 63 languages at sbs.com.au/coronavirus.