Discussion:
Letter to the President makes an interesting read
(too old to reply)
fasgnadh
2007-01-16 07:22:32 UTC
Permalink
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;


"The following is the full text of President
Ahmadinejad's letter to President George Bush:

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2607.shtml


In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,

Mr George Bush,
President of the United States of America,

For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the
undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which
are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst
university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have
prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the
hope that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of
God, feel obliged to respect human rights, present liberalism as a
civilization model, announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of
nuclear weapons and WMDs, make “War on Terror” his slogan, and finally,
work towards the establishment of a unified international community – a
community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day
govern, but at the same time, have countries attacked. The lives,
reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance
of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city, or convoy for
example, the entire village, city or convoy (are) set ablaze.

Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country,
it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water
sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign
troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken,
and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds
of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and
certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women –
as occupation troops – put in harms way, taken away from family and
loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to
so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and
those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with
all sorts of ailments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to
their families.
On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to
engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later
it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.

Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to
topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy
weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards
another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it.
I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran
Saddam was supported by the West.

Mr. President,
You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these
actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this
letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger
of peace and forgiveness?

There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously
kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no
international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows
whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.

European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in
Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or
her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial
system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions
correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e.
the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.

Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many
questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar
with some of them.

Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the
establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon
that is exclusive to our times.

Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.

I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told
me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished
in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties.
Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of
the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had
been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two
million families.

Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically
translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle
East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be
rationalized or explained?

Mr. President,
I am sure you know how – and at what cost – Israel was established:

-Many thousands were killed in the process.

-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment;
unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.

A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces
beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and
keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique –
or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.

Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”

Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?

Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these
lands – inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are Christian,
Moslem or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of
democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is
there so much opposition to a referendum?

The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All
independent observers have confirmed that this government represents the
electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under
pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon
the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.

If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform,
would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position
taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the
values outlined earlier? The people are also asking “Why are all UNSC
resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?”

Mr. President,
As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant
contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to
contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies
either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming
increasingly angry with such policies.

It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer
to other points as well.

Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in
the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to
the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one
of the basic rights of nations?

You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other
point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can
the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military
purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether?
If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines,
including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc.
must be opposed.

Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt
that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like
to be lied to.

Mr. President,
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected
governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must
they constantly be threatened and live in fear?

The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can
play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of
humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty
and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from
happening. Don’t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth –
including minerals – is being looted, despite the fact that they need it
more than others?

Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the
tenets of human rights?

The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent
toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic
revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting
the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of
pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the
war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger
plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats,
anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of
the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating
their country’s progress), and many other grievances that I will not
refer to in this letter.

Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government
immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its
condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.

All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it
be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and
security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is
just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been
kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities?
And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and
put on trial?

All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and
neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11,
instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors
and the American people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the
attacks -- some Western media only intensified the climate of fear and
insecurity – some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror
attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American
people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and
panic?

American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could
come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets,
in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this
situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security
and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?

Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the justification
--for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media.

In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret
about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles.
The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This
was repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally believe -- and the
ground set for an attack on Iraq.

Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate?

Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled
with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty
lost as well?

Mr. President,
In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of
governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.

The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars,
spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”

As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a
huge problem. Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser
extent -- in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can
the gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury
– be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?

What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which
I am hoping you will agree to some of it – is:

Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.

The people will scrutinize our presidencies.

Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?

Did we intend to establish justice or just supported especial interest
groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made
a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the
people and the Almighty with theirs’?

Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?

Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars
on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish
prisons and incarcerated some of them?

Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?

Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or
presented an inverted version of it?

Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?

Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the
progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?

And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath
of office – to serve the people, which is our main task, and the
traditions of the prophets -- or not?

Mr. President,
How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?

Where will this trend lead the world to?

How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?

How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?

How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children
be spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?

Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?

Do you think present policies can continue?

If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education
and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the
victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and
production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment
of peace, mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the
flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be
today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud?

Would not your administration’s political and economic standing have
been stronger?

And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing
global hatred of the American government?

Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.

If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ
(PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior?
Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice
will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they
even accept us?

My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the
rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians,
hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the
teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one
word and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other in
the world.

The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to
an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any
but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that)
some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they
turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)

Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.

“To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all
He pleases.” “The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the
past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants
and records their deeds.”

“The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all
universe is His court” “planning for the universe is done by His hands,
and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of
sins” “He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors”
“He is the Compassionate, the Merciful” “He is the recourse of the
faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness” “He is witness
to the actions of His servants” “He calls on servants to be faithful and
do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and
remain steadfast” “Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a
witness to their deeds” “A bad ending belongs only to those who have
chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants”
and “A good end and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear
His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.”

We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only
road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows
the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the
rule of the righteous on Earth.

We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets
of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus
(PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: [19.36] And surely Allah is my
Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. Marium
Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine
messengers.

The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and
the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and
give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.

We again read in the Holy Book: “The Almighty God sent His prophets with
miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs
and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the
balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious”.

All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good
Book as well.

Divine prophets have promised:
The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of
the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be
directed towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I
trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to
calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our
nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly
affected by our actions.

All prophets, speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on
monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.

Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these
principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for
the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present
problems of the world -- that are the result of disobedience to the
Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and improve our performance?
Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees
peace, friendship and justice?

Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles
are universally respected?

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?

Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive.
God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.

Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of
governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all
events are determined by Him.

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?

Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the
spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious
policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the
have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their
cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are
equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of
the world have no faith in international organizations, because their
rights are not advocated by these organizations.

Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help
realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed.
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and
fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith
in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”

Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.

Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"


---------

Nuclear NIMBYs split the Howard Government;


"Treasurer Peter Costello has said nuclear power is not viable.
It would cost 20-50 per cent more than coal-based power."
- Peter'Chernobyl'Costello, Federal Treasurer

"Finance Minister Nick Minchin said it would be crazy to
throwaway the natural advantage Australia possessed with coal."
- Nick'No-Nukes'Minchin, Federal Finance Minister

Mark'Nuclear Nimby' Vaile, has already refused to accept
any discussion of a nuclear power plant, or waste dump,
in his electorate, even though it is an an obvious
candidate for one of the score or more nukes that will
be dotted round the coast.

---------


The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

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The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
David R
2007-01-16 07:45:05 UTC
Permalink
he's wasting his time trying to communicate with an uneducated,
illiterate, incoherent, brain damaged hillbilly

it's painfully obvious why the corrupt, indecent conservatives are against
this man,

he is smarter and more honorable than these greedy,selfish, looting, war
mongering and hate
mongering low class conservative LOSER and FAILURE hillbillies
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
"The following is the full text of President
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2607.shtml
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
Mr George Bush,
President of the United States of America,
For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable
contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which are being
constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst university
students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have prompted me to
discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the hope that it
might bring about an opportunity to redress them.
Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God,
feel obliged to respect human rights, present liberalism as a civilization
model, announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons
and WMDs, make “War on Terror” his slogan, and finally, work towards the
establishment of a unified international community – a community which
Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern, but at the same
time, have countries attacked. The lives, reputations and possessions of
people destroyed and on the slight chance of the presence of a few
criminals in a village, city, or convoy for example, the entire village,
city or convoy (are) set ablaze.
Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country, it
is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water sources,
agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign troops put on
the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken, and the country
pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds of billions of
dollars spent from the treasury of one country and certain other countries
and tens of thousands of young men and women – as occupation troops – put
in harms way, taken away from family and loved ones, their hands stained
with the blood of others, subjected to so much psychological pressure that
everyday some commit suicide and those returning home suffer depression,
become sickly and grapple with all sorts of ailments; while some are
killed and their bodies handed to their families.
On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to engulf
both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later it was
revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.
Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to
topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy weapons
of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards another goal;
nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it. I point out that
throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran Saddam was supported
by the West.
Mr. President,
You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these
actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this
letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger of
peace and forgiveness?
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously
kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no
international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows
whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.
European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in
Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or
her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial
system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions correspond
to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e. the teachings
of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.
Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many questions
about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar with some of
them.
Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the
establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon that
is exclusive to our times.
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told me
that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished in,
news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties. Each
touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of the other
party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed.
Six million people that were surely related to at least two million
families.
Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically
translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle East
or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be rationalized or
explained?
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately
it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces
beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and
keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique –
or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these
lands – inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are Christian, Moslem
or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of democracy,
human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is there so much
opposition to a referendum?
The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All
independent observers have confirmed that this government represents the
electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under
pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon the
struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.
If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform, would
the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position taken
in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the values
outlined earlier? The people are also asking “Why are all UNSC resolutions
in condemnation of Israel vetoed?”
Mr. President,
As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant
contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to
contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies
either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming
increasingly angry with such policies.
It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer to
other points as well.
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the
Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the
Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one of the
basic rights of nations?
You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other
point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can
the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military
purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether? If
such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines, including
physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc. must be
opposed.
Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt
that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like to
be lied to.
Mr. President,
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected governments
are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly
be threatened and live in fear?
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can play
an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and
contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in
large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don’t they have
the right to ask why their enormous wealth – including minerals – is being
looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?
Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the
tenets of human rights?
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling
of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution,
transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting the activities
of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of
documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged
against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing
the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and
displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian
nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country’s
progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this
letter.
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government
immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its
condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be
planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security
services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an
educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept
secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why
aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on
trial?
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and
neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11,
instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors
and the American people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the
attacks -- some Western media only intensified the climate of fear and
insecurity – some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror
attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American
people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and
panic?
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come
at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets, in
their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this situation?
Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security and
providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?
Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the
justification --for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the
role of media.
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret
about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles.
The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This was
repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally believe -- and the
ground set for an attack on Iraq.
Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate?
Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled with
the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty lost as
well?
Mr. President,
In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of
governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent
every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge
problem. Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser extent --
in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the
gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury – be
explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which I
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Did we intend to establish justice or just supported especial interest
groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made a
few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the people
and the Almighty with theirs’?
Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?
Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars on
them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish prisons
and incarcerated some of them?
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or
presented an inverted version of it?
Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress
and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?
And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath of
office – to serve the people, which is our main task, and the traditions
of the prophets -- or not?
Mr. President,
How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?
Where will this trend lead the world to?
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?
How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be
spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education
and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims
of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production,
development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace,
mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the flames of
racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be today? Would
not your government and people be justifiably proud?
Would not your administration’s political and economic standing have been
stronger?
And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing
global hatred of the American government?
Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.
If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ (PBUH)
were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior? Will we be
given a role to play in the promised world, where justice will become
universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they even accept
us?
My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the
rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians,
hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the
teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one word
and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other in the
world.
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to an
equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but
Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of
us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back,
then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
“To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all He
pleases.” “The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the past
and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants and
records their deeds.”
“The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all
universe is His court” “planning for the universe is done by His hands,
and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of sins”
“He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors” “He is
the Compassionate, the Merciful” “He is the recourse of the faithful and
guides them towards the light from darkness” “He is witness to the actions
of His servants” “He calls on servants to be faithful and do good deeds,
and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and remain steadfast”
“Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a witness to their
deeds” “A bad ending belongs only to those who have chosen the life of
this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants” and “A good end and
eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not
follow their lascivious selves.”
We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only
road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows
the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the
rule of the righteous on Earth.
We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets of
the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus (PBUH)
has been quoted in Koran as well: [19.36] And surely Allah is my Lord and
your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. Marium
Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine
messengers.
The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and
the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and
give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.
We again read in the Holy Book: “The Almighty God sent His prophets with
miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs
and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the
balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious”.
All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good
Book as well.
The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of the
Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be directed
towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I trust both of
us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to calculate the actions
of rulers, because we must be answerable to our nations and all others
whose lives have been directly or indirectly affected by our actions.
All prophets, speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on
monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.
Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these
principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for the
dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present
problems of the world -- that are the result of disobedience to the
Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and improve our performance?
Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees
peace, friendship and justice?
Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles
are universally respected?
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God
has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments.
These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are
determined by Him.
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the
spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious
policies.
The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the
have-nots and the rich and poor countries.
The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.
The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their cultural
foundations and the disintegration of families. They are equally dismayed
with the fading of care and compassion. The people of the world have no
faith in international organizations, because their rights are not
advocated by these organizations.
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize
the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed. Those with
insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall of the
ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in
God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
---------
Nuclear NIMBYs split the Howard Government;
"Treasurer Peter Costello has said nuclear power is not viable.
It would cost 20-50 per cent more than coal-based power."
- Peter'Chernobyl'Costello, Federal Treasurer
"Finance Minister Nick Minchin said it would be crazy to
throwaway the natural advantage Australia possessed with coal."
- Nick'No-Nukes'Minchin, Federal Finance Minister
Mark'Nuclear Nimby' Vaile, has already refused to accept
any discussion of a nuclear power plant, or waste dump,
in his electorate, even though it is an an obvious
candidate for one of the score or more nukes that will
be dotted round the coast.
---------
The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
The Tuckerbox;
http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
-----------
SKD
2007-01-16 08:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David R
he's wasting his time trying to communicate with an uneducated,
Worse, he shows no understanding, going by the letter, of what he is
dealing with.
David R
2007-01-16 09:09:32 UTC
Permalink
a total moron who doesn't understand or speak English, only hillbilly ????
Post by SKD
Post by David R
he's wasting his time trying to communicate with an uneducated,
Worse, he shows no understanding, going by the letter, of what he is
dealing with.
Tex
2007-01-16 09:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East.
Well, that says a lot about how idiotic you are. Not only do you praise a
communist mass-murdering tyrant as a "great national leader", but now you
call a holocaust denier "rational".

Nice morals you've got there, fagbags.
fasgnadh
2007-01-16 09:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence. All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.

But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)

Off you go we will compare your rationality to
the Iranian Presidents using the material you
so far haven't shown any fault with;

"The following is the full text of President
Ahmadinejad's letter to President George Bush:

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2607.shtml


In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,

Mr George Bush,
President of the United States of America,

For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the
undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which
are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst
university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have
prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the
hope that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of
God, feel obliged to respect human rights, present liberalism as a
civilization model, announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of
nuclear weapons and WMDs, make “War on Terror” his slogan, and finally,
work towards the establishment of a unified international community – a
community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day
govern, but at the same time, have countries attacked. The lives,
reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance
of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city, or convoy for
example, the entire village, city or convoy (are) set ablaze.

Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country,
it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water
sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign
troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken,
and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds
of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and
certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women –
as occupation troops – put in harms way, taken away from family and
loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to
so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and
those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with
all sorts of ailments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to
their families.
On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to
engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later
it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.

Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to
topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy
weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards
another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it.
I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran
Saddam was supported by the West.

Mr. President,
You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these
actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this
letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger
of peace and forgiveness?

There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously
kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no
international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows
whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.

European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in
Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or
her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial
system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions
correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e.
the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.

Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many
questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar
with some of them.

Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the
establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon
that is exclusive to our times.

Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.

I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told
me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished
in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties.
Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of
the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had
been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two
million families.

Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically
translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle
East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be
rationalized or explained?

Mr. President,
I am sure you know how – and at what cost – Israel was established:

-Many thousands were killed in the process.

-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment;
unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.

A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces
beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and
keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique –
or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.

Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”

Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?

Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these
lands – inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are Christian,
Moslem or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of
democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is
there so much opposition to a referendum?

The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All
independent observers have confirmed that this government represents the
electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under
pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon
the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.

If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform,
would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position
taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the
values outlined earlier? The people are also asking “Why are all UNSC
resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?”

Mr. President,
As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant
contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to
contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies
either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming
increasingly angry with such policies.

It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer
to other points as well.

Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in
the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to
the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one
of the basic rights of nations?

You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other
point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can
the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military
purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether?
If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines,
including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc.
must be opposed.

Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt
that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like
to be lied to.

Mr. President,
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected
governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must
they constantly be threatened and live in fear?

The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can
play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of
humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty
and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from
happening. Don’t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth –
including minerals – is being looted, despite the fact that they need it
more than others?

Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the
tenets of human rights?

The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent
toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic
revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting
the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of
pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the
war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger
plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats,
anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of
the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating
their country’s progress), and many other grievances that I will not
refer to in this letter.

Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government
immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its
condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.

All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it
be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and
security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is
just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been
kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities?
And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and
put on trial?

All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and
neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11,
instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors
and the American people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the
attacks -- some Western media only intensified the climate of fear and
insecurity – some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror
attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American
people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and
panic?

American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could
come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets,
in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this
situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security
and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?

Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the justification
--for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media.

In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret
about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles.
The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This
was repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally believe -- and the
ground set for an attack on Iraq.

Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate?

Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled
with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty
lost as well?

Mr. President,
In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of
governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.

The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars,
spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”

As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a
huge problem. Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser
extent -- in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can
the gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury
– be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?

What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which
I am hoping you will agree to some of it – is:

Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.

The people will scrutinize our presidencies.

Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?

Did we intend to establish justice or just supported especial interest
groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made
a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the
people and the Almighty with theirs’?

Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?

Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars
on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish
prisons and incarcerated some of them?

Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?

Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or
presented an inverted version of it?

Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?

Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the
progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?

And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath
of office – to serve the people, which is our main task, and the
traditions of the prophets -- or not?

Mr. President,
How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?

Where will this trend lead the world to?

How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?

How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?

How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children
be spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?

Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?

Do you think present policies can continue?

If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education
and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the
victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and
production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment
of peace, mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the
flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be
today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud?

Would not your administration’s political and economic standing have
been stronger?

And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing
global hatred of the American government?

Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.

If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ
(PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior?
Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice
will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they
even accept us?

My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the
rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians,
hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the
teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one
word and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other in
the world.

The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to
an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any
but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that)
some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they
turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)

Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.

“To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all
He pleases.” “The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the
past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants
and records their deeds.”

“The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all
universe is His court” “planning for the universe is done by His hands,
and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of
sins” “He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors”
“He is the Compassionate, the Merciful” “He is the recourse of the
faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness” “He is witness
to the actions of His servants” “He calls on servants to be faithful and
do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and
remain steadfast” “Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a
witness to their deeds” “A bad ending belongs only to those who have
chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants”
and “A good end and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear
His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.”

We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only
road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows
the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the
rule of the righteous on Earth.

We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets
of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus
(PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: [19.36] And surely Allah is my
Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. Marium
Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine
messengers.

The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and
the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and
give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.

We again read in the Holy Book: “The Almighty God sent His prophets with
miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs
and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the
balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious”.

All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good
Book as well.

Divine prophets have promised:
The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of
the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be
directed towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I
trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to
calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our
nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly
affected by our actions.

All prophets, speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on
monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.

Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these
principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for
the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present
problems of the world -- that are the result of disobedience to the
Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and improve our performance?
Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees
peace, friendship and justice?

Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles
are universally respected?

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?

Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive.
God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.

Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of
governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all
events are determined by Him.

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?

Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the
spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious
policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the
have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their
cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are
equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of
the world have no faith in international organizations, because their
rights are not advocated by these organizations.

Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help
realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed.
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and
fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith
in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”

Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.

Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"

------------

"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006


"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"


"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006


"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
Tex
2007-01-16 10:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence.
Doesn't look like it.
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
Heh, talk about easy...
Post by fasgnadh
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation,
Odd, coming from the president of the country which still has a death
sentence on Salman Rushdie for writing a novel. Fucking savages.

Oh, and then there's the jailing of dissidents, the lack of free speech,
non-democratic elections, sanctions against "impious" behaviour, and so on
and so on.......
Post by fasgnadh
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
Can't find one called "Palestine" either.
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
A lot of them by muslims. After all, they were Hitler's allies in WW2
Post by fasgnadh
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
Trying to avoid fighting caused by muslims, then encoured to stay away by
muslims leaders.
Post by fasgnadh
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.
This is what happens when muslims start wars. Don't bitch when you get your
arses kicked.
Post by fasgnadh
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately
it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
...and it would have ended sixty years ago if you bloody savages stopped
trying to kill jews.
Post by fasgnadh
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them
Which wouldn't happe if nice muslim terrorists didn't hide out in them
Post by fasgnadh
, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian
figures
Usually the same ones who promise to exterminate Israel.
Post by fasgnadh
, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison.
Aww, those poor widdle terrorists
Post by fasgnadh
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
because Israel is an oasis of democracy and civilisation in a region full of
homicidal islamist lunatics.
Post by fasgnadh
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Yes, defending civilised people against genocidal lunatics is in line with
decent liberal values.
Post by fasgnadh
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the
Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the
Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one of the
basic rights of nations?
Yes, provided you're not going to use it for your genocidal jew-hating
fantasies
Post by fasgnadh
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected governments
are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly
be threatened and live in fear?
What's this got to do with Bush?
Post by fasgnadh
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can play
an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and
contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in
large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don’t they have
the right to ask why their enormous wealth – including minerals – is being
looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?
What's this got to do with Bush?
Post by fasgnadh
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling
of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution,
transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting the activities
of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of
documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged
against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing
the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and
displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian
nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country’s
progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this
letter.
Funny how his brave "people" aren't trusted to vote for someone other than
mullah-approved candidates, or allowed to live under the rules of an open,
civilised society
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world.
Except for apostates, rape victims and blasphemers, eh?
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be
planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security
services – or their extensive infiltration?
LOL. Another 9/11 conspiracy fuckwit.

Hey fagbags, great 'rational' leader you've got here. Jake McCrann must be
happy :)
Post by fasgnadh
Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of
the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their
responsibilities? And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties
identified and put on trial?
On trial for *what*?
Post by fasgnadh
But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)
So, which part was irrational?
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens.
Iran doesn't allow this.
Post by fasgnadh
For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world
trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11, instead of healing and
tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American people --
who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks -- some Western media
only intensified the climate of fear and insecurity – some constantly
talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in
fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate
the damages incurred from fear and panic?
Nope. What's this got to do with the President of Iran anyway? Bloody
neanderthal.
Post by fasgnadh
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come
at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets, in
their place of work and at home.
No data to support this.
Post by fasgnadh
Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of
conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to
a feeling of insecurity?
Might have something to do with a bunch of Islamic savages killing thousands
of people in terrorist attacks.
Post by fasgnadh
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets.
LOL. So why doesn't Iran allow it?
Post by fasgnadh
I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western media
for these principles.
Too bad, caveman, they have freedom of speech, and there's nothing your
neanderthal ass can do about it.
Post by fasgnadh
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent
every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”
That's for the American voter to worry about, caveman.
Post by fasgnadh
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty.
Sounds like most of Iran.
Post by fasgnadh
Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem.
How many would like to move to Iran? I'm guessing "zero"
Post by fasgnadh
Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser extent -- in other
countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the gargantuan
expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury – be explained and
be consistent with the aforementioned principles?
That's for Americans to decide, caveman
Post by fasgnadh
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which I
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Except in iran, where they won't be allowed to.
Post by fasgnadh
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Iran fails here too.
Post by fasgnadh
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
This is amusing from the idiot promising to erase Israel
Post by fasgnadh
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress
and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?
Sounds like Iran
Post by fasgnadh
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?
Ask the citizens of every muslim and communist country
Post by fasgnadh
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be
spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?
Only as long as there's muslim terrorists
Post by fasgnadh
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Probably not, too many muslim terrorists
Post by fasgnadh
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries
Hasn't helped africa, or any muslim nation, has it caveman?
Post by fasgnadh
, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and
improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of
natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production,
development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace,
mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the flames of racial,
ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be today? Would not your
government and people be justifiably proud?
No, because it wouldn't work.

Getting rid of the Islamic religion would be a much better solution
Post by fasgnadh
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to an
equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but
Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of
us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back,
then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)
...and the gibberish rolls on and on...
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
Oh jeez. And they reckon Bush is a fundametalist nutball

<snip immense load of religious gibberish>

Great "rational" guy you've got here Fagbags. Holocuast denier, 9/11
conspiracy theorist, theocratic extremeist and colossal windbag.

Still, you're the idiot who called genocidal communist Ho Chi Minh a "great
national leader", so your love for another psycho is no surprise.
Post by fasgnadh
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Sounds like the old islamic tactic of inviting the infidel into the faith
before you try and kill him. Typical islam.....
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God
has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments.
These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are
determined by Him.
....lordy, will this rambling never end? This is duller than the koran
Post by fasgnadh
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders.
Of course, the Iranian people are allowed no voice.

<snip even more waffle>
Post by fasgnadh
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize
the ideals of humanity.
It's done a much better job than *any* Islamic society that has ever
existed.

Today these two concepts have failed.
Post by fasgnadh
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall
of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in
God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
Phew. The gasbagging has finally ended. That like like being trapped in an
elevator with a drunk preacher. Only the Iranian prez was sober, and the
drunk preacher wouldn't have been a holocaust denier, jew-hater and 9/11
conspiracy theorist.

Yeah, no wonder you like this loon fagbags, he can go next to Ho Chi Minh on
your list of "great national leaders".
fasgnadh
2007-01-16 12:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence.
Doesn't look like it.
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
Heh, talk about easy...
Post by fasgnadh
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation,
Odd, coming from the president of the country which still has a death
sentence on Salman Rushdie for writing a novel. Fucking savages.
Irrelevant, happened before Ahmadinejad was even President,

Irrationality score: Tex 1 Adj: 0
Post by Tex
Oh, and then there's the jailing of dissidents, the lack of free speech,
non-democratic elections, sanctions against "impious" behaviour, and so on
and so on.......
All matters which are teh responsibility of the Iranian government and
judiciary, not the president.

You don't seem to be addressing the document at all.

Did you not read it, or could you find nothing irrational in it?

Irrationality score: Tex 2 Adj: 0
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
Can't find one called "Palestine" either.
I don't see how that makes his comment irrational.

But if his comment is irrational yours must be too.

Irrationality score: Tex 3 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
A lot of them by muslims. After all, they were Hitler's allies in WW2
So his observation is both rational and correct, yours is
partisan opinion based on it.


Irrationality score: Tex 4 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
Trying to avoid fighting caused by muslims, then encoured to stay away by
muslims leaders.
So his observation is both rational and correct, yours is
partisan opinion based on it.


Irrationality score: Tex 5 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.
This is what happens when muslims start wars. Don't bitch when you get your
arses kicked.
Againd you don't dispute his simple statement of fact, simply add
your rant. His point is accepted by you, yours is mere vitriol

Irrationality score: Tex 6 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately
it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
...and it would have ended sixty years ago if you bloody savages stopped
trying to kill jews.
Againd you don't dispute his simple statement of fact, simply add
your rant. His point is accepted by you, yours is mere blame
assignment and vitriol

Irrationality score: Tex 7 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them
Which wouldn't happe if nice muslim terrorists didn't hide out in them
It's irrational to kill children if they are not your target,
Is it irrational for Palestinians to live in their houses?

Irrationality score: Tex 8 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian
figures
Usually the same ones who promise to exterminate Israel.
Arguable

Irrationality score: Tex 8 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison.
Aww, those poor widdle terrorists
No trials, the entire Palestinian government was kidnapped

Irrationality score: Tex 9 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
because Israel is an oasis of democracy and civilisation in a region full of
homicidal islamist lunatics.
The question can't be irrational, your response is more rabid Anti-Semitism.

Irrationality score: Tex 10 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Yes, defending civilised people against genocidal lunatics is in line with
decent liberal values.
The question is fair, the answer does not address it.

Irrationality score: Tex 11 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the
Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the
Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one of the
basic rights of nations?
Yes, provided you're not going to use it for your genocidal jew-hating
fantasies
Again the question is fair, your answer is just more vitriol.

Irrationality score: Tex 12 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected governments
are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly
be threatened and live in fear?
What's this got to do with Bush?
America has a history of coups and invasions in support of puppet
regimes in South America. Asking questions is not irrational;

Irrationality score: Tex 12 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can play
an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and
contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in
large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don’t they have
the right to ask why their enormous wealth – including minerals – is being
looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?
What's this got to do with Bush?
Asking questions is not irrational;

Irrationality score: Tex 12 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling
of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution,
transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting the activities
of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of
documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged
against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing
the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and
displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian
nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country’s
progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this
letter.
Funny how his brave "people" aren't trusted to vote for someone other than
mullah-approved candidates, or allowed to live under the rules of an open,
civilised society
His points are rational, your response does not relate to what he said
at all.



Irrationality score: Tex 13 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world.
Except for apostates, rape victims and blasphemers, eh?
His point is not only rational, but sympathetic and humane and decent..
all qualities your vitriolic response lacks.



Irrationality score: Tex 14 Adj: 1
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be
planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security
services – or their extensive infiltration?
LOL. Another 9/11 conspiracy fuckwit.
Hardly, he has asked, not asserted, But I agree he has underestimated
the incompetence of American security services.
Post by Tex
Hey fagbags, great 'rational' leader you've got here. Jake McCrann must be
happy :)
I don't have him as my leader, again your response is at least as
irrational as his insinuation


Irrationality score: Tex 15 Adj: 2
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of
the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their
responsibilities? And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties
identified and put on trial?
On trial for *what*?
Well he seems to be saying that if they were not complicit
the security agencies were negligent. If you disagree
with that he would have to get a point back on the 'conspiracy'
allegation. But it appears he doesn't understand that the Spooks
are never charged, no matter how much they fuck up.

Irrationality score: Tex 15 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)
So, which part was irrational?
I have annotated it in detail, these are merely provisional
results, I am sure some people will disagree, some will
do so rationally, others will merely bark and howl their
hatred as you do, even when he was saying things that are
widely acknowledged facts.

On his part you showed much that you disputed, but
almost nothing that was irrational.

On your part;
All of the vitriol, the anti-semitic cracks, the partisan
sneering, which occurred without any supporting evidence,
usually in response to simple statements of fact
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens.
Iran doesn't allow this.
That is a point which can be debeted, but he is correct in simply
stating that all governments have such a duty.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a rational
statement, and a debate about who fulfils that rational statement;

Irrationality score: Tex 16 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world
trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11, instead of healing and
tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American people --
who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks -- some Western media
only intensified the climate of fear and insecurity – some constantly
talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in
fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate
the damages incurred from fear and panic?
Nope. What's this got to do with the President of Iran anyway? Bloody
neanderthal.
Irrationality score: Tex 16 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come
at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets, in
their place of work and at home.
No data to support this.
Irrationality score: Tex 16 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of
conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to
a feeling of insecurity?
Might have something to do with a bunch of Islamic savages killing thousands
of people in terrorist attacks.
In the previous statement you argued 'no data' for a feeling of
insecurity, now you offer a reason for a 'feeling of insecurity'

Irrationality score: Tex 17 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets.
LOL. So why doesn't Iran allow it?
Irrationality score: Tex 17 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western media
for these principles.
Too bad, caveman, they have freedom of speech, and there's nothing your
neanderthal ass can do about it.
Irrationality score: Tex 18 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent
every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”
That's for the American voter to worry about, caveman.
Irrationality score: Tex 19 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty.
Sounds like most of Iran.
You have removed his rational and factually true comment from the
relevant context, waste on War.

Irrationality score: Tex 20 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem.
How many would like to move to Iran? I'm guessing "zero"
You have removed his rational and factually true comment from the
relevant context, waste on War.

Irrationality score: Tex 21 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser extent -- in other
countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the gargantuan
expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury – be explained and
be consistent with the aforementioned principles?
That's for Americans to decide, caveman
But you consistently make comments about his country, so you are a
hypocrite, while he is here acknowledging that the conditions he spoke
of are not confined to America. Thus, his point is about the cost of
war, when these needs exist.


Irrationality score: Tex 22 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which I
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Except in iran, where they won't be allowed to.
Irrationality score: Tex 23 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Iran fails here too.
That doesn't make his comment irrational.

Irrationality score: Tex 23 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
This is amusing from the idiot promising to erase Israel
Irrationality score: Tex 24 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress
and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?
Sounds like Iran
Irrationality score: Tex 25 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?
Ask the citizens of every muslim and communist country
Irrationality score: Tex 26 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be
spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?
Only as long as there's muslim terrorists
Irrationality score: Tex 27 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Probably not, too many muslim terrorists
Irrationality score: Tex 27 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries
Hasn't helped africa, or any muslim nation, has it caveman?
Irrationality score: Tex 28 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and
improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of
natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production,
development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace,
mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the flames of racial,
ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be today? Would not your
government and people be justifiably proud?
No, because it wouldn't work.
Getting rid of the Islamic religion would be a much better solution
Irrationality score: Tex 29 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to an
equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but
Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of
us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back,
then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)
...and the gibberish rolls on and on...
Irrationality score: Tex 30 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
Oh jeez. And they reckon Bush is a fundametalist nutball
<snip immense load of religious gibberish>
Snipping rather than learning how someone thinks is never rational

Irrationality score: Tex 31 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Sounds like the old islamic tactic of inviting the infidel into the faith
before you try and kill him. Typical islam.....
Dialogue, where possible, rather than war is never irrational

Irrationality score: Tex 32 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God
has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments.
These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are
determined by Him.
....lordy, will this rambling never end? This is duller than the koran
The country Bush represents has "In God We Trust" stamped on it's
coinage.. it is perfectly rational to appeal to an American presidents
virtue.

Irrationality score: Tex 33 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders.
Of course, the Iranian people are allowed no voice.
Irrationality score: Tex 34 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
<snip even more waffle>
Irrationality score: Tex 35 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize
the ideals of humanity.
It's done a much better job than *any* Islamic society that has ever
existed.
Irrationality score: Tex 35 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
Today these two concepts have failed.
Post by fasgnadh
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall
of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in
God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
Phew. The gasbagging has finally ended. That like like being trapped in an
elevator with a drunk preacher. Only the Iranian prez was sober, and the
drunk preacher wouldn't have been a holocaust denier, jew-hater and 9/11
conspiracy theorist.
Yeah, no wonder you like this loon fagbags,
I never said I liked him.

Bonus Irrationality score: Tex 36 Adj: 3
Post by Tex
he can go next to Ho Chi Minh on
your list of "great national leaders".
He has not shown the capacities and achievements which cause
his people to call him "Uncle" - the man who defeated the
Americans and kept Vietnam free and independent.


Irrationality score: Tex 37 Adj: 3
--
------------

"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006


"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"


"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006


"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
Tex
2007-01-16 13:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence.
Doesn't look like it.
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
Heh, talk about easy...
Post by fasgnadh
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation,
Odd, coming from the president of the country which still has a death
sentence on Salman Rushdie for writing a novel. Fucking savages.
Irrelevant, happened before Ahmadinejad was even President,
Irrationality score: Tex 1 Adj: 0
It is still active, while Ahmadinejad is president, as he refuses to condemn
it or remove it.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 1/1
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Oh, and then there's the jailing of dissidents, the lack of free speech,
non-democratic elections, sanctions against "impious" behaviour, and so
on and so on.......
All matters which are teh responsibility of the Iranian government and
judiciary, not the president.
The President can't comment on his own country, but comments on others? How
very odd.
Post by fasgnadh
You don't seem to be addressing the document at all.
You sure don't :)
Post by fasgnadh
Did you not read it, or could you find nothing irrational in it?
Irrationality score: Tex 2 Adj: 0
Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 2/2
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
Can't find one called "Palestine" either.
I don't see how that makes his comment irrational.
But if his comment is irrational yours must be too.
Irrationality score: Tex 3 Adj: 1
So why is he so concerned about the "occupation" of a country that didn't
exist, hmmmm?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 3/3
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
A lot of them by muslims. After all, they were Hitler's allies in WW2
So his observation is both rational and correct, yours is
partisan opinion based on it.
So his implication that the jews were somehow responsible for it is
completely wrong. But don't let that interfere with your delusions.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 3/3
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
Trying to avoid fighting caused by muslims, then encoured to stay away by
muslims leaders.
So his observation is both rational and correct, yours is
partisan opinion based on it.
So his implication that the jews were somehow responsible for it is
completely wrong. But don't let that interfere with your delusions.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 4/4
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.
This is what happens when muslims start wars. Don't bitch when you get
your arses kicked.
Againd you don't dispute his simple statement of fact, simply add
your rant. His point is accepted by you, yours is mere vitriol
I don't "accept" his point at all, dopey. His implication that the jews
were somehow responsible for it is completely wrong. But don't let that
interfere with your delusions.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 5/5
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment;
unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
...and it would have ended sixty years ago if you bloody savages stopped
trying to kill jews.
Againd you don't dispute his simple statement of fact, simply add
your rant. His point is accepted by you, yours is mere blame
assignment and vitriol
I don't "accept" his point at all, dopey. His implication that the jews
were somehow responsible for it is completely wrong. But don't let that
interfere with your delusions.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 6/6
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them
Which wouldn't happe if nice muslim terrorists didn't hide out in them
It's irrational to kill children if they are not your target,
Is it irrational for Palestinians to live in their houses?
It is irrational for these genocidal jihadis to use their children as human
shields. Funny you never address this point.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 7/7
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian
figures
Usually the same ones who promise to exterminate Israel.
Arguable
LOL. Not "arguable" at all, you sad idiot :)

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 8/8
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison.
Aww, those poor widdle terrorists
No trials, the entire Palestinian government was kidnapped
Gosh, might have had something to do with their avowed aim to exterminate
Israel. Guessed you missed that one, dumbass :)

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 9/9
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
because Israel is an oasis of democracy and civilisation in a region full
of homicidal islamist lunatics.
The question can't be irrational, your response is more rabid
Anti-Semitism.
How is it "anti-semitism"? No refutation of fact noted.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 10/10
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Yes, defending civilised people against genocidal lunatics is in line
with decent liberal values.
The question is fair, the answer does not address it.
It answers it directly, dopey. Can you actually read?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 11/11
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in
the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to
the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one
of the basic rights of nations?
Yes, provided you're not going to use it for your genocidal jew-hating
fantasies
Again the question is fair, your answer is just more vitriol.
Based on his own attitudes and words. You don't seem to handle facts very
well...

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 12/12
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected
governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must
they constantly be threatened and live in fear?
What's this got to do with Bush?
America has a history of coups and invasions in support of puppet regimes
in South America. Asking questions is not irrational;
Oh, you're agreeing that the following statement of yours was bullshit:

"Irrelevant, happened before Ahmadinejad was even President,"

Exactly which "puppet regimes" in South America has Bush installed?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 13/13
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can
play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of
humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty
and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from
happening. Don’t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth –
including minerals – is being looted, despite the fact that they need it
more than others?
What's this got to do with Bush?
Asking questions is not irrational;
Asking irrational questions is irrational. He might as well been asking him
about the cricket scores for all the relevance it had. How is Bush
responsible for Africa?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 14/14
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent
toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic
revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting
the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of
pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the
war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger
plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats,
anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of
the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating
their country’s progress), and many other grievances that I will not
refer to in this letter.
Funny how his brave "people" aren't trusted to vote for someone other
than mullah-approved candidates, or allowed to live under the rules of an
open, civilised society
His points are rational, your response does not relate to what he said at
all.
His points are completely hypocritical: why doesn't his great concern for
"people" extend to his own damned citizens? Do try to keep up, OK?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 15/15
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world.
Except for apostates, rape victims and blasphemers, eh?
His point is not only rational, but sympathetic and humane and decent..
all qualities your vitriolic response lacks.
So, which part of it was incorrect, eh Fagbags? Why does his "rational"
concern for "innocents" not extend to his own people?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 16/16
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it
be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and
security services – or their extensive infiltration?
LOL. Another 9/11 conspiracy fuckwit.
Hardly, he has asked, not asserted, But I agree he has underestimated
the incompetence of American security services.
Why ask it if he didn't believe it? I could ask "Could it be planned and
executed without help from aliens?", but asking wouldn't make it rational.

He is asserting involvement of the American security services in 9/11, which
makes him a kook.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 17/17
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Hey fagbags, great 'rational' leader you've got here. Jake McCrann must
be happy :)
I don't have him as my leader, again your response is at least as
irrational as his insinuation
I didn't say you had him as "your" leader, only mocking your description of
him as a "rational" leader.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 18/18
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects
of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their
responsibilities? And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty
parties identified and put on trial?
On trial for *what*?
Well he seems to be saying that if they were not complicit
the security agencies were negligent. If you disagree
with that he would have to get a point back on the 'conspiracy'
allegation. But it appears he doesn't understand that the Spooks
are never charged, no matter how much they fuck up.
So, *what* would they be on trial for exactly? Not being good at their job?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 19/19
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)
So, which part was irrational?
I have annotated it in detail, these are merely provisional
results, I am sure some people will disagree, some will
do so rationally, others will merely bark and howl their
hatred as you do, even when he was saying things that are
widely acknowledged facts.
Like 9/11 conspiracy theories, eh? :)
Post by fasgnadh
On his part you showed much that you disputed, but
almost nothing that was irrational.
Apart from all the irrational stuff.
Post by fasgnadh
On your part;
All of the vitriol, the anti-semitic cracks
What "anti-semitic cracks" you lying turd?
Post by fasgnadh
, the partisan
sneering, which occurred without any supporting evidence,
usually in response to simple statements of fact
He didn't seem to be presenting any facts, other than the ones he was
blaming Jews for, or things which have nothing to do with Bush at all
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens.
Iran doesn't allow this.
That is a point which can be debeted, but he is correct in simply
stating that all governments have such a duty.
You don't seem to understand the difference between a rational
statement, and a debate about who fulfils that rational statement;
So, you think he is "rational" despite blaming Bush/Jews for things he fails
to measure up to himself, and begging Bush to come-to-Allah so Dubya can be
more like Iran-boy.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 20/20
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world
trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11, instead of healing
and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American
people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks -- some
Western media only intensified the climate of fear and insecurity – some
constantly talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept
the people in fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it
possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic?
Nope. What's this got to do with the President of Iran anyway? Bloody
neanderthal.
Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 21/21. Hell, you didn't even
try that time.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could
come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets,
in their place of work and at home.
No data to support this.
Irrationality score: Tex 16 Adj: 3
Again, a comple inability to refute the point. I said he has no data to
support it, and you cannot say otherwise.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 22/22
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of
conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise
to a feeling of insecurity?
Might have something to do with a bunch of Islamic savages killing
thousands of people in terrorist attacks.
In the previous statement you argued 'no data' for a feeling of
insecurity, now you offer a reason for a 'feeling of insecurity'
If he believes this 'feeling of insecurity' is there, it's kind of amusing
he blames the "media" for it rather than islamic terrorists. Who did the
media kill again?

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 23/23
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets.
LOL. So why doesn't Iran allow it?
Again, a comple inability to refute the point.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 24/24
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western
media for these principles.
Too bad, caveman, they have freedom of speech, and there's nothing your
neanderthal ass can do about it.
Again, a comple inability to refute the point.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 25/25
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars,
spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the
citizens?”
That's for the American voter to worry about, caveman.
Irrationality score: Tex 19 Adj: 3
Again, no attempt whatsoever to refute the point.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 26/26
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty.
Sounds like most of Iran.
You have removed his rational and factually true comment from the relevant
context, waste on War.
The war has nothing to do with people in the US living in poverty, thus his
point is irrelevant.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 27/27
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem.
How many would like to move to Iran? I'm guessing "zero"
You have removed his rational and factually true comment from the relevant
context, waste on War.
The war has nothing to do with people in the US being unemployed and
homeless, thus his point is irrelevant.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 28/28
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser extent -- in
other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the
gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury – be
explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?
That's for Americans to decide, caveman
But you consistently make comments about his country, so you are a
hypocrite
No, he's the one who made the public statement fagbags, and I'm saying he's
full of shit, as his own country proves.
Post by fasgnadh
, while he is here acknowledging that the conditions he spoke of are not
confined to America. Thus, his point is about the cost of war, when these
needs exist.
Those needs existed before the war, and are not caused by the war, nor would
they be solved by ending the war. Therefore, his point is irrelevant.

The war has nothing to do with people in the US living in poverty, thus his
point is irrelevant.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 29/29
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Except in iran, where they won't be allowed to.
Irrationality score: Tex 23 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 30/30
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Iran fails here too.
That doesn't make his comment irrational.
See above. They are hypocritical and irrelevant.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 31/31
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
This is amusing from the idiot promising to erase Israel
Irrationality score: Tex 24 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 32/32
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the
progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s
rights?
Sounds like Iran
Irrationality score: Tex 25 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 33/33
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?
Ask the citizens of every muslim and communist country
Irrationality score: Tex 26 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 34/34
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children
be spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their
heads?
Only as long as there's muslim terrorists
Irrationality score: Tex 27 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 35/35
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Probably not, too many muslim terrorists
Irrationality score: Tex 27 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 36/36
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries
Hasn't helped africa, or any muslim nation, has it caveman?
Irrationality score: Tex 28 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 37/37
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and
improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of
natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production,
development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace,
mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the flames of
racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be today? Would
not your government and people be justifiably proud?
No, because it wouldn't work.
Getting rid of the Islamic religion would be a much better solution
Irrationality score: Tex 29 Adj: 3
No attempt to refute the point, yet again:

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 38/38
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to
an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any
but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that)
some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they
turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)
...and the gibberish rolls on and on...
Irrationality score: Tex 30 Adj: 3
Hey, I guess you must like endless, pointless religious gibberish.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
Oh jeez. And they reckon Bush is a fundametalist nutball
<snip immense load of religious gibberish>
Snipping rather than learning how someone thinks is never rational
Irrationality score: Tex 31 Adj: 3
I know how he thinks: he's an islamist funamentalist kook, 9/11 conspiracy
theorist and holocaust denier. He has the same thinking ability as Jake
McCrann

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 39/39
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Sounds like the old islamic tactic of inviting the infidel into the faith
before you try and kill him. Typical islam.....
Dialogue, where possible, rather than war is never irrational
Demanding conversion is not "dialogue"

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 40/40
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive.
God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of
governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all
events are determined by Him.
....lordy, will this rambling never end? This is duller than the koran
The country Bush represents has "In God We Trust" stamped on it's
coinage.. it is perfectly rational to appeal to an American presidents
virtue.
By a long, incoherent religious rant. Yeah, that'll work

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 41/41
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders.
Of course, the Iranian people are allowed no voice.
Irrationality score: Tex 34 Adj: 3
No refutation of the point noted.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 42/42
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
<snip even more waffle>
Irrationality score: Tex 35 Adj: 3
Snipping endless waffle is very rational.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help
realize the ideals of humanity.
It's done a much better job than *any* Islamic society that has ever
existed.
Irrationality score: Tex 35 Adj: 3
No refutation of the point noted.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 43/43
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Today these two concepts have failed.
Post by fasgnadh
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and
fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith
in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
Phew. The gasbagging has finally ended. That like like being trapped in
an elevator with a drunk preacher. Only the Iranian prez was sober, and
the drunk preacher wouldn't have been a holocaust denier, jew-hater and
9/11 conspiracy theorist.
Yeah, no wonder you like this loon fagbags,
I never said I liked him.
You sure seem to, thinking he's "rational". It's like calling Martin Bryant
"rational".
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
he can go next to Ho Chi Minh on your list of "great national leaders".
He has not shown the capacities and achievements which cause
his people to call him "Uncle" - the man who defeated the
Americans and kept Vietnam free and independent.
LOL. "Free" - a communist gulag which has murdered thousands of its own
citizens. Nice concept of "free" you've got there. Maybe if Ahmadinejad
murders tens of thousands of more iranians he'll catch up to Ho Chi Minh's
mighty moral status is your eyes.

Fasgnadh-inability-to-refute-the-point total: 44/44

Jeez, you failed rather badly fagbags....
kangarooistan
2007-01-16 13:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence.
Doesn't look like it.
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
Heh, talk about easy...
Post by fasgnadh
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation,
Odd, coming from the president of the country which still has a death
sentence on Salman Rushdie for writing a novel. Fucking savages.
Oh, and then there's the jailing of dissidents, the lack of free speech,
non-democratic elections, sanctions against "impious" behaviour, and so on
and so on.......
Post by fasgnadh
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
Can't find one called "Palestine" either.
Post by fasgnadh
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
Poor silly tex / TROPI thinks that as PALESTINE was a part of the
otterman empire , therefore , " palestine " did not really exist

But australia and canada were a part of the btrittish EMPIRE and did
exist

Google WW1 and WW2 palestine to see a lot of fighting in PALESTINE and
NONE in ISRAEL

But still the jews and tropi claim Palestine never existed and ISRAEL
did always exist

PITY no books agree with the jews Except jewish books

google palestine , a hell of a lot of aussies DIED in a country tropi
claims never existed


Web Results 1 - 10 of about 137,000 for WW1 WW2 Palestine. (0.12
seconds)

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Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next
Tex
2007-01-16 13:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Poor silly tex / TROPI thinks that as PALESTINE was a part of the
otterman empire , therefore , " palestine " did not really exist
There was no such country as Palestine. No such people as "palestinians"
Post by kangarooistan
But still the jews and tropi claim Palestine never existed and ISRAEL
did always exist
Where did I claim Israel "always existed"? Dumbass
Post by kangarooistan
google palestine , a hell of a lot of aussies DIED in a country tropi
claims never existed
Lots of aussies have climbed Mt Everest. It doesn't make Mt Everest a
"country"
kangarooistan
2007-01-16 16:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.

.
Mr. President,
I am sure you know how - and at what cost - Israel was established:
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
Post by kangarooistan
Poor silly tex / TROPI thinks that as PALESTINE was a part of the
otterman empire , therefore , " palestine " did not really exist
But australia and canada were a part of the btrittish EMPIRE and did
exist
Google WW1 and WW2 palestine to see a lot of fighting in PALESTINE and
NONE in ISRAEL
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 137,000 for WW1 WW2 Palestine. (0.12
Recollections Tasmanians at WarHe served in nearly every campaign that
Australians were involved in WW2 ... Fred served in Palestine, Greece,
Egypt, Tobruk and various parts of the Middle ...
www.abc.net.au/tv/recollections/ww2.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
Andrew HagenIf it is, Bobbitt's argument that The Long War
encompassed WW1, WW2, and the Cold War ... I have no doubt that the new
wave that has started in Palestine, ...
www.andrewhagen.com/archives/date/2005/10/ - 55k - Cached - Similar
pages
Australian Army light armoured car setting out to patrol the road ...
Hat badge & collar dogs of the 1st Armoured Car Regiment (WW2) ...
www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/allied/aust-ww1.htm - 62k - Cached
- Similar pages
.--------------
cut and paste from above link
.
The cars in Aden and Iraq had lift out planks for flooring; the
Palestine cars had armoured shields. These Silver Ghost Rolls-Royce
had three Achilles heels. As big hearted and willing as the Rolls were,
they could be easily immobilised in close street fighting by driving a
flock of sheep into them. The first few carcases fouled the steering.
This trick had been used effectively during the troubles of the 1920's.
The two other weak areas that affected them as successful fighting
vehicles were their turning circle; and finally the angle of fire
through the ports combined with the wooden floor. It was possible to
let a car pass, run to the side of the car and roll a bomb or light a
fire under the car, without the crew being able to see the enemy or
fire at them. Naturally we were quite uneasy each time we were sent to
assist in Palestine with our Iraq model armoured car.

----------

Great to see photos in the australian war museum showing Aussies
serving in a country called PALESTINE , that our resident IDIOT tropi
says does not exist , go see all the photos

NONE SAY ISRAEL ANYWHERE
The driving position was an early cockpit seat bolted to the floor. A
standard brake and six inch cut-down gear lever were there and to the
left of the clutch was a small lever that could be hooked back by the
heel and operated the exhaust cut-out. All other
v>
Post by kangarooistan
Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next
Tex
2007-01-17 08:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
Great to see photos in the australian war museum showing Aussies
serving in a country called PALESTINE
Liar. There was no "country called PALESTINE". Who was the head of state?
What was the official language and currency? WHat kind of government did it
have? Where was the capital? Where were the borders? Why hadn't any arab in
the middle east ever heard of this "country" or a people called
"palestinians"?
fasgnadh
2007-01-18 01:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Tex wrote:


Here is the United Nations Map for the Partition of PALESTINE (1947)

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/maps/242.shtml
Why hadn't any arab in the middle east ever heard of this
"country" or a people called "palestinians"?
No one can explain the depths of your ignorance, but what is clear is
your malign Zionazi determination to wipe Palestine from the Map and
push Muslims into the sea.



Great to see photos in the Australian War Museum of Aussies
fighting in PALESTINE.



------------

"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006


"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"


"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006


"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
t***@gmail.com
2007-01-18 01:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Here is the United Nations Map for the Partition of PALESTINE (1947)
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/maps/242.shtml
Why hadn't any arab in the middle east ever heard of this
"country" or a people called "palestinians"?
No one can explain the depths of your ignorance, but what is clear is
your malign Zionazi determination to wipe Palestine from the Map and
push Muslims into the sea.
You avoided the question, yet again. Why is that?
fasgnadh
2007-01-18 08:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@gmail.com
Post by fasgnadh
Here is the United Nations Map for the Partition of PALESTINE (1947)
http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/maps/242.shtml
Why hadn't any arab in the middle east ever heard of this
"country" or a people called "palestinians"?
No one can explain the depths of your ignorance, but what is clear is
your malign Zionazi determination to wipe Palestine from the Map and
push Muslims into the sea.
Great to see photos in the Australian War Museum of Aussies
fighting in PALESTINE.
You avoided the question, yet again. Why is that?
There is no need to comment on your more obvious rhetorical shite.

"Why haven't you stopped molesting young boys?"

If you want to make the ridiculous claim that no Arab
has heard of Palestine, when Maps made by the UN (1947) and
the British Royal Commission (1936) clearly show Palestine,
then you present the 100% survey of Arabs proving your claptrap! B^p


Why would I respond to your lies when just letting
you post them loses you the argument!? B^D

------------

"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006


"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"


"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006


"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

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The true-blue Homestead;

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-----------
kangarooistan
2007-01-16 16:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.

.
Mr. President,
I am sure you know how - and at what cost - Israel was established:
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
Post by kangarooistan
Poor silly tex / TROPI thinks that as PALESTINE was a part of the
otterman empire , therefore , " palestine " did not really exist
But australia and canada were a part of the btrittish EMPIRE and did
exist
Google WW1 and WW2 palestine to see a lot of fighting in PALESTINE and
NONE in ISRAEL
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 137,000 for WW1 WW2 Palestine. (0.12
Recollections Tasmanians at WarHe served in nearly every campaign that
Australians were involved in WW2 ... Fred served in Palestine, Greece,
Egypt, Tobruk and various parts of the Middle ...
www.abc.net.au/tv/recollections/ww2.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
Andrew HagenIf it is, Bobbitt's argument that The Long War
encompassed WW1, WW2, and the Cold War ... I have no doubt that the new
wave that has started in Palestine, ...
www.andrewhagen.com/archives/date/2005/10/ - 55k - Cached - Similar
pages
Australian Army light armoured car setting out to patrol the road ...
Hat badge & collar dogs of the 1st Armoured Car Regiment (WW2) ...
www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/allied/aust-ww1.htm - 62k - Cached
- Similar pages
.--------------
cut and paste from above link
.
The cars in Aden and Iraq had lift out planks for flooring; the
Palestine cars had armoured shields. These Silver Ghost Rolls-Royce
had three Achilles heels. As big hearted and willing as the Rolls were,
they could be easily immobilised in close street fighting by driving a
flock of sheep into them. The first few carcases fouled the steering.
This trick had been used effectively during the troubles of the 1920's.
The two other weak areas that affected them as successful fighting
vehicles were their turning circle; and finally the angle of fire
through the ports combined with the wooden floor. It was possible to
let a car pass, run to the side of the car and roll a bomb or light a
fire under the car, without the crew being able to see the enemy or
fire at them. Naturally we were quite uneasy each time we were sent to
assist in Palestine with our Iraq model armoured car.

----------

Great to see photos in the australian war museum showing Aussies
serving in a country called PALESTINE , that our resident IDIOT tropi
says does not exist , go see all the photos

NONE SAY ISRAEL ANYWHERE
The driving position was an early cockpit seat bolted to the floor. A
standard brake and six inch cut-down gear lever were there and to the
left of the clutch was a small lever that could be hooked back by the
heel and operated the exhaust cut-out. All other
v>
Post by kangarooistan
Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next
kangarooistan
2007-01-16 16:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.

.
Mr. President,
I am sure you know how - and at what cost - Israel was established:
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
Post by kangarooistan
Poor silly tex / TROPI thinks that as PALESTINE was a part of the
otterman empire , therefore , " palestine " did not really exist
But australia and canada were a part of the btrittish EMPIRE and did
exist
Google WW1 and WW2 palestine to see a lot of fighting in PALESTINE and
NONE in ISRAEL
Web Results 1 - 10 of about 137,000 for WW1 WW2 Palestine. (0.12
Recollections Tasmanians at WarHe served in nearly every campaign that
Australians were involved in WW2 ... Fred served in Palestine, Greece,
Egypt, Tobruk and various parts of the Middle ...
www.abc.net.au/tv/recollections/ww2.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
Andrew HagenIf it is, Bobbitt's argument that The Long War
encompassed WW1, WW2, and the Cold War ... I have no doubt that the new
wave that has started in Palestine, ...
www.andrewhagen.com/archives/date/2005/10/ - 55k - Cached - Similar
pages
Australian Army light armoured car setting out to patrol the road ...
Hat badge & collar dogs of the 1st Armoured Car Regiment (WW2) ...
www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/allied/aust-ww1.htm - 62k - Cached
- Similar pages
.--------------
cut and paste from above link
.
The cars in Aden and Iraq had lift out planks for flooring; the
Palestine cars had armoured shields. These Silver Ghost Rolls-Royce
had three Achilles heels. As big hearted and willing as the Rolls were,
they could be easily immobilised in close street fighting by driving a
flock of sheep into them. The first few carcases fouled the steering.
This trick had been used effectively during the troubles of the 1920's.
The two other weak areas that affected them as successful fighting
vehicles were their turning circle; and finally the angle of fire
through the ports combined with the wooden floor. It was possible to
let a car pass, run to the side of the car and roll a bomb or light a
fire under the car, without the crew being able to see the enemy or
fire at them. Naturally we were quite uneasy each time we were sent to
assist in Palestine with our Iraq model armoured car.

----------

Great to see photos in the australian war museum showing Aussies
serving in a country called PALESTINE , that our resident IDIOT tropi
says does not exist , go see all the photos

NONE SAY ISRAEL ANYWHERE
The driving position was an early cockpit seat bolted to the floor. A
standard brake and six inch cut-down gear lever were there and to the
left of the clutch was a small lever that could be hooked back by the
heel and operated the exhaust cut-out. All other
v>
Post by kangarooistan
Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next
David R
2007-01-25 05:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????

are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,

corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Tex
2007-01-25 07:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David R
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????
are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,
corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Good description of the "palestinians"
fasgnadh
2007-01-25 07:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Post by David R
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????
are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,
corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Good description of
The Israeli President, Moshe Katsav

http://www.haaretz.com/

"AG decides to charge President Katsav with rape"


What's the difference between Moshe and other Zionists?

He only rapes Israelis, not all of Palestine and Lebanon.


------------

"THE polls show John Howard is likely to be beaten
by Labor, now under its sharpest leader in a decade.
Facing defeat, the Prime Minister yesterday changed
not only his team but its tone." -Andrew Bolt 24/1/2007


Fraser accuses current PM of marginalising Muslims"

"I believe that this is divisive, dangerous and false."

"Mr Fraser said the Government was gearing up for
what he called a Muslim election next year.

- Malcolm Fraser ABC 2/11/2006

Every election, Howard creates DIVISION for a DIVERSION.



"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

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-----------
Tex
2007-01-25 07:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by David R
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????
are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,
corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Good description of
The Israeli President, Moshe Katsav
http://www.haaretz.com/
"AG decides to charge President Katsav with rape"
What's the difference between Moshe and other Zionists?
He only rapes Israelis, not all of Palestine and Lebanon.
No, there are muslims to do that
fasgnadh
2007-01-25 08:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by David R
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????
are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,
corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Good description of
The Israeli President, Moshe Katsav
http://www.haaretz.com/
"AG decides to charge President Katsav with rape"
What's the difference between Moshe and other Zionists?
He only rapes Israelis, not all of Palestine and Lebanon.
Katsav says the Israeli media and Police who
have accused him after rape allegations by at least four women,
are corrupt.

Both sets of allegations could be true, there could
be those who are victims of rape and those
who are victims of Israeli propaganda...
Post by Tex
No, there are muslims to do that
In the past.



------------

"THE polls show John Howard is likely to be beaten
by Labor, now under its sharpest leader in a decade.
Facing defeat, the Prime Minister yesterday changed
not only his team but its tone." -Andrew Bolt 24/1/2007


Fraser accuses current PM of marginalising Muslims"

"I believe that this is divisive, dangerous and false."

"Mr Fraser said the Government was gearing up for
what he called a Muslim election next year.

- Malcolm Fraser ABC 2/11/2006

Every election, Howard creates DIVISION for a DIVERSION.



"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
Tex
2007-01-25 08:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Tex
Post by David R
Post by Tex
. Fucking savages.
Savages ????
are you referring to the ignorant texass hillbillies,
corrupt,incompetent, LOSERS, FAILURES, child molesters,
murderers,rapists,etc., etc. ???
Good description of
The Israeli President, Moshe Katsav
http://www.haaretz.com/
"AG decides to charge President Katsav with rape"
What's the difference between Moshe and other Zionists?
He only rapes Israelis, not all of Palestine and Lebanon.
Katsav says the Israeli media and Police who
have accused him after rape allegations by at least four women,
are corrupt.
Both sets of allegations could be true, there could
be those who are victims of rape and those
who are victims of Israeli propaganda...
Post by Tex
No, there are muslims to do that
In the past.
In the past, right now, and in the future. Bloody islamonazi savages can't
help themselves.

B J Foster
2007-01-16 20:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence. All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
"Threats to wipe Israel off the map - even by heads of state - are
nothing new in the Middle East. In May 1967, Egypt's President Gamal
Abdel Nasser imposed a naval blockade against Israel's southern port of
Eilat, making war inevitable. In a speech to Egyptian labour unions,
Nasser welcomed the prospect of war: 'Egypt will, thanks to this war, at
long last wipe Israel off the face of the earth. We have waited for this
moment for 11 long years'.

But Nasser's belligerency in that speech did not extend beyond Israel.
He did not call for a tsunami of 'holy hatred' against the West on a
global scale.

More to the point, Egypt had no nuclear weapons and no foreseeable
chance of acquiring them. Iran, on the other hand, has come under
intense scrutiny by the International Atomic Energy Agency for allegedly
working to produce enriched uranium for use in the manufacture of
nuclear weapons.

As British Prime Minister Tony Blair noted in condemning the Iranian
president's speech last week, any state that is led by a person with
President Ahmadinejad's attitudes and seeks to possess nuclear weapons
constitutes a threat to humanity at large.

Indeed, the recent pronouncements of the president constitute a clear
violation by Iran of its obligations under article 2(4) of the UN
charter, which reads: 'All members shall refrain in their international
relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial
integrity or political independence of any state'".
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=66


"A nuclear-armed Iran, under an Ahmadinejad regime, is a terrifying
prospect. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes he is being
divinely guided to help bring about the reappearance of the Imam Mahdi,
the Shi’a Muslim equivalent of the Messiah, which will herald the Last
Judgment and the end of the world.
...
The Iranian regime is one of the most vicious and frightening
dictatorships of the modern period. Its human rights record is
appalling. Since 1980, more than 120,000 people have been executed by
the regime. A purge at the end of the war with Iraq in 1988, for
example, resulted in a wave of executions that left more than 30,000
people dead. Those targeted include political opponents, religious and
ethnic minorities and, within these groups, women and children. Although
it is impossible to gauge the regime’s real level of popular support,
its constant and overwhelming repression of its own people suggests a
regime that sees itself as eternally beset by enemies, within Iran and
beyond".
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4078
Post by fasgnadh
But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)
Off you go we will compare your rationality to
the Iranian Presidents using the material you
so far haven't shown any fault with;
"The following is the full text of President
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2607.shtml
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
Mr George Bush,
President of the United States of America,
For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the
undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which
are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst
university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These have
prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the
hope that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.
Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of
God, feel obliged to respect human rights, present liberalism as a
civilization model, announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of
nuclear weapons and WMDs, make “War on Terror” his slogan, and finally,
work towards the establishment of a unified international community – a
community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day
govern, but at the same time, have countries attacked. The lives,
reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance
of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city, or convoy for
example, the entire village, city or convoy (are) set ablaze.
Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country,
it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water
sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign
troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken,
and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what price? Hundreds
of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and
certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women –
as occupation troops – put in harms way, taken away from family and
loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to
so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and
those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with
all sorts of ailments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to
their families.
On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to
engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later
it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.
Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to
topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy
weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards
another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it.
I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran
Saddam was supported by the West.
Mr. President,
You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these
actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this
letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the Messenger
of peace and forgiveness?
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no
legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously
kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no
international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows
whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.
European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in
Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or
her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial
system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions
correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e.
the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and liberal values.
Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many
questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar
with some of them.
Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the
establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon
that is exclusive to our times.
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told
me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished
in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties.
Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of
the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had
been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two
million families.
Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically
translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle
East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be
rationalized or explained?
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns
and villages were destroyed.
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment;
unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces
beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and
keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique –
or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these
lands – inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are Christian,
Moslem or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of
democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is
there so much opposition to a referendum?
The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All
independent observers have confirmed that this government represents the
electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under
pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon
the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.
If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform,
would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position
taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the
values outlined earlier? The people are also asking “Why are all UNSC
resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?”
Mr. President,
As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant
contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to
contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies
either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming
increasingly angry with such policies.
It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer
to other points as well.
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in
the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to
the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one
of the basic rights of nations?
You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other
point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can
the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military
purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether?
If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines,
including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc.
must be opposed.
Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt
that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like
to be lied to.
Mr. President,
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected
governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must
they constantly be threatened and live in fear?
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can
play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of
humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty
and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from
happening. Don’t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth –
including minerals – is being looted, despite the fact that they need it
more than others?
Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the
tenets of human rights?
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent
toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic
revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting
the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of
pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the
war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger
plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats,
anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of
the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating
their country’s progress), and many other grievances that I will not
refer to in this letter.
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is
deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government
immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its
condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive
security, protection and intelligence systems – and even hunts its
opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it
be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and
security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is
just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been
kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities?
And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty parties identified and
put on trial?
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and
neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11,
instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors
and the American people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the
attacks -- some Western media only intensified the climate of fear and
insecurity – some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror
attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American
people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and
panic?
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could
come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the streets,
in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this
situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security
and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?
Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the justification
--for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media.
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret
about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles.
The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This
was repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally believe -- and the
ground set for an attack on Iraq.
Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate?
Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled
with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty
lost as well?
Mr. President,
In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of
governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars,
spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are
living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a
huge problem. Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser
extent -- in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can
the gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public treasury
– be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the
world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention – which
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Did we intend to establish justice or just supported especial interest
groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship, made
a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the
people and the Almighty with theirs’?
Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?
Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars
on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish
prisons and incarcerated some of them?
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or
presented an inverted version of it?
Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns,
intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the
progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?
And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath
of office – to serve the people, which is our main task, and the
traditions of the prophets -- or not?
Mr. President,
How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?
Where will this trend lead the world to?
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of
some rulers?
How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children
be spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education
and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the
victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and
production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment
of peace, mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the
flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be
today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud?
Would not your administration’s political and economic standing have
been stronger?
And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing
global hatred of the American government?
Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.
If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ
(PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior?
Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice
will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will they
even accept us?
My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the
rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians,
hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the
teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one
word and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other in
the world.
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come to
an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any
but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that)
some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they
turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one
God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
“To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all
He pleases.” “The Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the
past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants
and records their deeds.”
“The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all
universe is His court” “planning for the universe is done by His hands,
and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of
sins” “He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors”
“He is the Compassionate, the Merciful” “He is the recourse of the
faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness” “He is witness
to the actions of His servants” “He calls on servants to be faithful and
do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and
remain steadfast” “Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a
witness to their deeds” “A bad ending belongs only to those who have
chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants”
and “A good end and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear
His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves.”
We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only
road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency follows
the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine promise of the
rule of the righteous on Earth.
We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets
of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus
(PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: [19.36] And surely Allah is my
Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path. Marium
Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine
messengers.
The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and
the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and
give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.
We again read in the Holy Book: “The Almighty God sent His prophets with
miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs
and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the
balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious”.
All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good
Book as well.
The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of
the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be
directed towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I
trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to
calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our
nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly
affected by our actions.
All prophets, speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on
monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.
Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these
principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for
the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present
problems of the world -- that are the result of disobedience to the
Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and improve our performance?
Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees
peace, friendship and justice?
Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles
are universally respected?
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive.
God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the
universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of
governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all
events are determined by Him.
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago?
Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little
heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world
leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the
spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious
policies.
The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the
have-nots and the rich and poor countries.
The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.
The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their
cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are
equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of
the world have no faith in international organizations, because their
rights are not advocated by these organizations.
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help
realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed.
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and
fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a
main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith
in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their
problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
------------
"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006
"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"
"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006
"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath
------------
The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
The Tuckerbox;
http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
-----------
fasgnadh
2007-01-17 03:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
No, what I did was say, 'lets look at some evidence and
base opinions on that'. Tex prefers to make accusations,
both about me, and his ALLEGED 'holocaust denier'
before he has made ANY attempts to prove a case!

That is the difference between my rational approach,
and opinions based on PREJUDICE, hate-filled bias,
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
but from evidence.
Below BJ demonstrates a textbook case of pre-judging
an individual on the basis of alleged actions by a
GROUP OF OTHERS he can be associated with. This
stereotyping is usually done on the basis of religion,
ethnic identity, gender, skin colour, political
affiliation or sexual preference.
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
BJ is not at all interested in the individuals ACTUAL
words and actions, because they don't support his stereotype.
Judgement and condemnation of the stereotype can be done from
a script (you will all recognise it's familiarity), the chanting
of slogans is easier, far less complex, than the objective
analysis of the individuals ACTUAL words and actions in their
real context. Such facts are not just 'unnecessary' to the
stereotype, they actually threaten it!

Therefore BJ ignores the subject matter, the speech, ENTIRELY! 8^o

"A stereotype is a popularly held belief about a type of person or a
group of people which does not take into account individual differences."
Post by B J Foster
"Threats to wipe Israel off the map - even by heads of state - are
nothing new in the Middle East.
BJ's judges ALL Muslims by his stereotype of them, thus he seeks
to pre-judge (prejudice) Ahmadinejad by reference to the an alleged
"GROUP GUILT", (the Dirty Semite stereotype, which the Nazis developed).

The Nazis found, or invented, criminals from one particular ethnic
group, (there are always some in EVERY ethnic group, you just have to
selectively focus on them). Once they had used these to construct the
Dirty Jew stereotype, they could then apply it at will to ANY Jew,
justifying the most horrible persecutions.

Here BJ hangs Ahmadinejad not on the on the basis of the alleged actions
of others.

By using stereotypes in his propaganda exercise B J seeks to prove
Ahmadinejad's guilt without any reference to HIS words or actions.

To do this he has to go back to 1967, to a Muslim nation that had been
attacked by Israel, backed by the colonial powers, Britain and France,
in the Suez Invasion;
Post by B J Foster
In May 1967, Egypt's President Gamal
Abdel Nasser imposed a naval blockade against Israel's southern port of
Eilat, making war inevitable. In a speech to Egyptian labour unions,
Nasser welcomed the prospect of war: 'Egypt will, thanks to this war, at
long last wipe Israel off the face of the earth. We have waited for this
moment for 11 long years'.
If we engage with BJ's irrelevant stereotype, he has achieved his purpose
of having Ahmadinejad judged by the actions of OTHERS.

If we don't, the stereotype continues to gain currency.

Shoah victims understand this technique, BJ uses it to hang individual
Semites on the basis of a crude stereotype of the Dirty Semite.

We need only to recognise what he is doing and reject his
IRRATIONAL method of slander by stereotype as IRRELEVANT.
Post by B J Foster
But Nasser's belligerency in that speech did not extend beyond Israel.
He did not call for a tsunami of 'holy hatred' against the West on a
global scale.
What has this to do with Ahmadinejad's rational letter? Nothing,
unless you believe as BJ does, that all Muslims are the same,
bear collective responsibility for each others actions, and should
be judged by the STEREOTYPE, NOT AS INDIVIDUALS.
Post by B J Foster
More to the point, Egypt had no nuclear weapons and no foreseeable
chance of acquiring them. Iran, on the other hand,
also has no nuclear weapons. B^p

But a stereotype can have any negatives tacked on, imputed or
implied, because we are not dealing with facts about an individual,
but INSINUATIONS about a meme.
Post by B J Foster
has come under
intense scrutiny by the International Atomic Energy Agency for allegedly
working to produce enriched uranium for use in the manufacture of
nuclear weapons.
Allegedly means Iran is using the uranium to produce nuclear power
and there is NO PROOF that it intends to build the nuclear weapons
which Israel's Prime Minister Olmert unwittingly confirmed Israel
already possessed! 8^o

Based on sterotypes, Israel has already invaded Lebanon, twice,
and it's accomplice, The USSA has not only THREATENED to bomb
Muslim nations "back into the Stone Age" but has ACTUALLY invaded,
occupied and destroyed one! 8^o

Oh My god. There is a stereotype based on FACTS, not insinuations
and misrepresentations of translations from Farsi! B^p

Now, what else can BJ use, in preference to rationally examining
Ahmadinejad's ACTUAL words? How about some more prejudicial OPINIONS
from it's rivals and enemies? (Like Fox TV, BJ likes to ensure
balance by having a Republican bigot present a different perspective
to that of a neo-con fundamentalist ;-)
Post by B J Foster
As British Prime Minister Tony Blair noted in condemning the Iranian
president's speech last week, any state that is led by a person with
President Ahmadinejad's attitudes and seeks to possess nuclear weapons
constitutes a threat to humanity at large.
"Iraq has WMD's which threaten us all" and as much oil as Iran! 8^o
Post by B J Foster
Indeed, the recent pronouncements of the president constitute a clear
violation by Iran of its obligations under article 2(4) of the UN
charter, which reads: 'All members shall refrain in their international
relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial
integrity or political independence of any state'".
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=66
The handy thing about a stereotype is how BJ ignores not just the
THREATS by the USSA to bomb a Muslim nation into the stone age,
but the ACTION carrying out that threat in another Muslim nation.

The pursuit of the irrational by BJ replaces any examination of what
Ahmadinejad says and does with any unsubstantiated OPINIONS which
Post by B J Foster
"A nuclear-armed Iran, under an Ahmadinejad regime, is a terrifying
prospect.
Not factual, but capable of being used to terrify people. ;-)

POSESSION of nuclear weapons, by Israel, the USSA and Nth Korea
is even more terrifying. because at least two of them have invaded and
destroyed other nations in the last decade! 8^o
Post by B J Foster
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes he is being
divinely guided to help bring about the reappearance of the Imam Mahdi,
the Shi’a Muslim equivalent of the Messiah, which will herald the Last
Judgment and the end of the world.
This is like discussion of Bush and the Religious Right's apocalyptic
view of foreign policy, but without the documentation! B^D
Post by B J Foster
...
The Iranian regime is one of the most vicious and frightening
dictatorships of the modern period.
If it were any worse, it would be TexIraq.
Post by B J Foster
Its human rights record is appalling.
Since the USSA liberated TexIraq, Death Squads kill 100 people
a day, Iraqis are tortured, and the regime conducts beheadings
and executions where the name of the Death Squads leader is shouted
in exhultation as the gallows trapdoor drops!
Post by B J Foster
Since 1980, more than 120,000 people have been executed by
the regime.
Ahmadinejad has only been in power since the 6th of August 2005! 8^o

It is the mark of a vicious anti-Muslim bigot like BJ Foster that
he tries to slander an individual with deaths that he was not
responsible for!

More of this IRRELEVANT, pre-Ahmadinejad simply proves BJ is a malign
Zionazi tool, using the fascist propoganda of the 'Dirty Jew' to slander
his target with ANY ALLEGED crime committed by ANY MUSLIM, past or
Post by B J Foster
A purge at the end of the war with Iraq in 1988, for
example, resulted in a wave of executions that left more than 30,000
people dead.
1988! pfffft! Fuck off you dirty little Nazi! B^p

You beat even Tex for your irrational, hate-filled, vendetta! B^p
Post by B J Foster
Those targeted include political opponents, religious and
ethnic minorities and, within these groups, women and children.
30,000 is less than the number of civilian deaths In TexIraq
in JUST ONE of the four years since the nuclear armed terrorists,
the USSA, invaded! B^p
Post by B J Foster
Although it is impossible to gauge the
regime’s real level of popular support,
We know it exceeds that of either Bush or Olmert.
Post by B J Foster
its constant and overwhelming repression of its own people suggests a
regime that sees itself as eternally beset by enemies, within Iran and
beyond".
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4078
Now, I have in passing, eviscerated that extended 'opinion' piece
by a bigot who operates on crude stereotypes. It was not difficult
to show how baseless the opinions were, but that debate distracts,
as BJ intended, from the key point to note: which is how irrational
it is to ignore the ACTUAL words and actions of the target individual
and try and crucify them with, outdated slanders of OTHER muslims,
other nations, otehr times, ALL IRRELEVANT to judging the INDIVIDUAL
BJ could not even look at, let alone discuss;
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
But at the moment, the evidence suggests the most
irrational one is ..you. B^)
That is even more true of BJ than it is of Tex,
Tex at least made an attempt to engage with the text
of the letter, even though he made the fundamental
mistake of attempting to dispute the VIEWPOINT with his
own political opinions, rather than examine if the
viewpoint was rational and reasoned.

His own wasn't. consisting mostly of vitriol and
emotive abuse.

But at least he tried, and contrasted in detail
his views with those of Ahmadinejad. BJ never
engaged with those views at all, preferring
to slander by stereotype and once again, wrestle
with a straw man of his own making! pffft
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
Off you go we will compare your rationality to
the Iranian Presidents using the material you
so far haven't shown any fault with;
BJ found no fault. I doubt he even read it.

The use of a stereotype is that BJ doesn't even have to
read material to know he doesn't like it! B^D
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
"The following is the full text of President
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_2607.shtml
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
Mr George Bush,
President of the United States of America,
For sometime now I have been thinking, how one can justify the
undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena --
which are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and
amongst university students. Many questions remain unanswered. These
have prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions,
in the hope that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.
Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of
God, feel obliged to respect human rights, present liberalism as a
civilization model, announce one’s opposition to the proliferation of
nuclear weapons and WMDs, make “War on Terror” his slogan, and
finally, work towards the establishment of a unified international
community – a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth
will one day govern, but at the same time, have countries attacked.
The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the
slight chance of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city,
or convoy for example, the entire village, city or convoy (are) set
ablaze.
Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country,
it is occupied, around one hundred thousand people killed, its water
sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign
troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens
broken, and the country pushed back perhaps fifty years. At what
price? Hundreds of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one
country and certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men
and women – as occupation troops – put in harms way, taken away from
family and loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others,
subjected to so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit
suicide and those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and
grapple with all sorts of ailments; while some are killed and their
bodies handed to their families.
On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to
engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country.
Later it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.
Of course Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged
to topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy
weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards
another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about
it. I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on
Iran Saddam was supported by the West.
Mr. President,
You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these
actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of
this letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the
Messenger of peace and forgiveness?
There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have
no legal representation, their families cannot see them and are
obviously kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is
no international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows
whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.
European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons
in Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and
him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any
judicial system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such
actions correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this
letter, i.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ (PBUH), human rights and
liberal values.
Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many
questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar
with some of them.
Throughout history many countries have been occupied, but I think the
establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon
that is exclusive to our times.
Students are saying that sixty years ago such a country did not exist.
They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not
been able to find a country named Israel.
I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students
told me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people
perished in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the
warring parties. Each touted their victories and the most recent
battlefront defeat of the other party. After the war they claimed that
six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely
related to at least two million families.
Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically
translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle
East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be
rationalized or explained?
Mr. President,
-Many thousands were killed in the process.
-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.
-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations,
towns and villages were destroyed.
This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment;
unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids,
destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces
beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and
keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique
– or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.
Another big question asked by the people is “why is this regime being
supported?”
Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ
(PBUH) or Moses (PBUH) or liberal values?
Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of
these lands – inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are
Christian, Moslem or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to
principles of democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets?
If not, why is there so much opposition to a referendum?
The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All
independent observers have confirmed that this government represents
the electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government
under pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime,
abandon the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.
If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform,
would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such
position taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be
reconciled with the values outlined earlier? The people are also
asking “Why are all UNSC resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?”
Mr. President,
As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant
contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to
contact me as well. They do not have faith in these dubious policies
either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming
increasingly angry with such policies.
It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer
to other points as well.
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in
the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to
the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D [Research & Development] one
of the basic rights of nations?
You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what
other point in history has scientific and technical progress been a
crime? Can the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized
for military purposes be reason enough to oppose science and
technology altogether? If such a supposition is true, then all
scientific disciplines, including physics, chemistry, mathematics,
medicine, engineering, etc. must be opposed.
Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no
doubt that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do
not like to be lied to.
Mr. President,
Don’t Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected
governments are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must
they constantly be threatened and live in fear?
The people of Africa are hardworking, creative and talented. They can
play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of
humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress.
Poverty and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from
happening. Don’t they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth
– including minerals – is being looted, despite the fact that they
need it more than others?
Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the
tenets of human rights?
The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and
grievances, including: the coup d’etat of 1953 and the subsequent
toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic
revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters
supporting the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many
thousands of pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for
Saddam in the war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian
passenger plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing
threats, anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear
progress of the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant
and celebrating their country’s progress), and many other grievances
that I will not refer to in this letter.
Mr. President,
September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents
is deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government
immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its
condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.
All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good
standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs
extensive security, protection and intelligence systems – and even
hunts its opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple
operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with
intelligence and security services – or their extensive infiltration?
Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects
of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their
responsibilities? And, why aren’t those responsible and the guilty
parties identified and put on trial?
All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for
their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and
neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After
9.11, instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the
survivors and the American people -- who had been immensely
traumatized by the attacks -- some Western media only intensified the
climate of fear and insecurity – some constantly talked about the
possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that
service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate the
damages incurred from fear and panic?
American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could
come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the
streets, in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with
this situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of
security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of
insecurity?
Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the justification
--for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media.
In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest
reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret
about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these
principles. The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence
of WMDs. This was repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally
believe -- and the ground set for an attack on Iraq.
Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate?
Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled
with the earlier mentioned values? Is the truth known to the Almighty
lost as well?
Mr. President,
In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of
governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.
The question here is “what has the hundreds of billions of dollars,
spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?”
As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people
are living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is
a huge problem. Of course these problems exist – to a larger or lesser
extent -- in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind,
can the gargantuan expenses of the campaign – paid from the public
treasury – be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned
principles?
What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around
the world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention –
Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule
indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be
constantly judged in the immediate and distant futures.
The people will scrutinize our presidencies.
Did we mange to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or
insecurity and unemployment?
Did we intend to establish justice or just supported especial interest
groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship,
made a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of
the people and the Almighty with theirs’?
Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?
Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed
wars on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established
hellish prisons and incarcerated some of them?
Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of
intimidation and threats?
Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or
presented an inverted version of it?
Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?
Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic,
ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people,
prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of
guns, intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the
progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people’s rights?
And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our
oath of office – to serve the people, which is our main task, and the
traditions of the prophets -- or not?
Mr. President,
How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?
Where will this trend lead the world to?
How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions
of some rulers?
How much longer will the specter of insecurity – raised from the
stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?
How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children
be spilled on the streets, and people’s houses destroyed over their heads?
Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?
Do you think present policies can continue?
If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop
movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor
countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases,
education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance
to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment
opportunities and production, development projects and poverty
alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing
states, and extinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other
conflicts, were would the world be today? Would not your government
and people be justifiably proud?
Would not your administration’s political and economic standing have
been stronger?
And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing
global hatred of the American government?
Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.
If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ
(PBUH) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior?
Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice
will become universal and Jesus Christ (PBUH) will be present? Will
they even accept us?
My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the
rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians,
hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the
teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect one
word and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other
in the world.
The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of
divine religions and says: [3.64] Say: O followers of the Book! Come
to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve
any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and
(that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but
if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The
Family of Imran)
Mr. President,
According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship
one God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.
“To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do
all He pleases.” “The Lord which knows that which is hidden and
visible, the past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of
His servants and records their deeds.”
“The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all
universe is His court” “planning for the universe is done by His
hands, and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and
forgiveness of sins” “He is the companion of the oppressed and the
enemy of oppressors” “He is the Compassionate, the Merciful” “He is
the recourse of the faithful and guides them towards the light from
darkness” “He is witness to the actions of His servants” “He calls on
servants to be faithful and do good deeds, and asks them to stay on
the path of righteousness and remain steadfast” “Calls on servants to
heed His prophets and He is a witness to their deeds” “A bad ending
belongs only to those who have chosen the life of this world and
disobey Him and oppress His servants” and “A good end and eternal
paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not
follow their lascivious selves.”
We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the
only road leading to salvation. I have been told that Your Excellency
follows the teachings of Jesus (PBUH) and believes in the divine
promise of the rule of the righteous on Earth.
We also believe that Jesus Christ (PBUH) was one of the great prophets
of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus
(PBUH) has been quoted in Koran as well: [19.36] And surely Allah is
my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
Marium
Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine
messengers.
The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific
and the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to
guide and give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to
Humans.
We again read in the Holy Book: “The Almighty God sent His prophets
with miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine
signs and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book
and the balance so that the people display justice and avoid the
rebellious”.
All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good
Book as well.
The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of
the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined. The good will be
directed towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I
trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to
calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our
nations and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly
affected by our actions.
All prophets, speak of peace and tranquility for man -- based on
monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.
Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by
these principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice,
respect for the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can
overcome the present problems of the world -- that are the result of
disobedience to the Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and
improve our performance?
Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and
guarantees peace, friendship and justice?
Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten
principles are universally respected?
Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the
teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human
dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?
Mr. President,
History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive.
God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left
the universe and humanity to their own devices.
Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of
governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and
all events are determined by Him.
Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?
Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years
ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.
The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay
little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of
influential world leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure
and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of
and accept dubious policies.
The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the
have-nots and the rich and poor countries.
The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.
The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their
cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are
equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of
the world have no faith in international organizations, because their
rights are not advocated by these organizations.
Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help
realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed.
Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and
fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.
We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards
a main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through
faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will
conquer their problems. My question for you is: “Do you not want to
join them?”
Mr. President,
Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the
Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.
Vasalam Ala Man Ataba’al hoda
Mahmood Ahmadi-Nejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran"
------------
"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006
"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"
"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006
"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath
------------
The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
The Tuckerbox;
http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
-----------
--
------------

"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006


"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"


"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006


"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath

------------

The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


The true-blue Hall Of Fame;

http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html


The Tuckerbox;

http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html


-----------
B J Foster
2007-01-17 20:53:22 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by fasgnadh
Below BJ demonstrates a textbook case of pre-judging
an individual on the basis of alleged actions by a
GROUP OF OTHERS he can be associated with. This
stereotyping is usually done on the basis of religion,
ethnic identity, gender, skin colour, political
affiliation or sexual preference.
Ridiculous. I cited SPECIFIC instances of SPECIFIC individuals making
SPECIFIC threats against Israel. You are the only one generalising here.

#1:
Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"

#2:
Nasser threatened to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth"


YOU need to explain why YOU are generalising and what group YOU are
referring to.

Secondly, YOU need to explain why YOU endorse the actions of these
individuals.

BTW, also still waiting for a single instance of India being the
aggressor against Pakistan.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by B J Foster
Post by fasgnadh
All you have to do is show
what you think is irrational in the man's letter
to Bush and I could be persuaded to change my mind.
BJ is not at all interested in the individuals ACTUAL
words and actions, because they don't support his stereotype.
His actual words were "wipe Israel off the map".

Can it get any more specific than that?
Post by fasgnadh
Judgement and condemnation of the stereotype can be done from
a script (you will all recognise it's familiarity), the chanting
of slogans is easier, far less complex, than the objective
analysis of the individuals ACTUAL words and actions in their
real context. Such facts are not just 'unnecessary' to the
stereotype, they actually threaten it!
Sorry to burst your bubble. Ah-mad-jihad is developing nuclear weapons
and threatening to destroy a neighbouring country.

A cause for serious concern one would have thought. In fact, every world
leader (with the exception of some Arab ones) has *condemned*
Ah-mad-jihad's words.

His actual words are quite clear. The translation from Farsi to English
by CNN, The New York Times and the Guardian is identical to the
translation by al-Jazeera.

Yet you continue to play 'boutique multiculturalist' and pretend that
Ah-mad-jihad said something different, or attack the messenger, or raise
strawman arguments, or false generalisations.

Script or no script, generalisation or no generalisation, answer this
question:
"Ah-mad-jihad is a dangerous wacko":
a) true
b) false
c) don't understand the question

(Cumulative score: 0)
Post by fasgnadh
Therefore BJ ignores the subject matter, the speech, ENTIRELY! 8^o
"A stereotype is a popularly held belief about a type of person or a
group of people which does not take into account individual differences."
Post by B J Foster
"Threats to wipe Israel off the map - even by heads of state - are
nothing new in the Middle East.
It happens to be a fact:
'Egypt will, thanks to this war, at long last wipe Israel off the face
of the earth' (Gamel Abdel Nasser, 1967)
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=66

BTW, the above were not my words. Because you're a dishonest little
shit, you saw fit to remove the reference. Then, you failed to address
the topic, which is Ah-mad-jihad's letter to Bush and the SHEER
UNADULTERATED HYPOCRISY of it:

"The Iranian regime is one of the most vicious and frightening
dictatorships of the modern period. Its human rights record is
appalling. Since 1980, more than 120,000 people have been executed by
the regime. A purge at the end of the war with Iraq in 1988, for
example, resulted in a wave of executions that left more than 30,000
people dead. Those targeted include political opponents, religious and
ethnic minorities and, within these groups, women and children. Although
it is impossible to gauge the regime’s real level of popular support,
its constant and overwhelming repression of its own people suggests a
regime that sees itself as eternally beset by enemies, within Iran and
beyond".
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4078
Post by fasgnadh
BJ's judges ALL Muslims by his stereotype of them, thus he seeks
to pre-judge (prejudice) Ahmadinejad by reference to the an alleged
"GROUP GUILT", (the Dirty Semite stereotype, which the Nazis developed).
Fuck you faghdagh. The above is a SPECIFIC reference to a SPECIFIC
leader of a SPECIFIC country. Like all PC-types and boutique
multiculturalists, when you're losing the debate, you scream 'racist'.

I'll take it as a given that whenever you scream 'racist', you've
basically thrown in the towel because the facts have kicked your arse again.

The fact is that Ah-mad-jihad is a violent and dangerous individual and
his letter is pure hypocrisy.

Why can't you debate THAT fact? Tired of getting your arse kicked?
Post by fasgnadh
The Nazis found, ...
ROTFL, another boutique multiculturalist implodes himself with Godwin's
law.
Hasta la vista, twit
Praetorian
2007-01-17 04:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East. It mentioned his letter to President Bush,
suggesting alternatives to War. So I looked it up;
now you call a holocaust denier "rational".
Well, unlike you I don't operate from prejudice,
What utter bullshit. You're one of the most prejudiced bigots on Usenet.


PS, your use of the oath sworn by the Eureka rebels sits very well with your
degree of hypocrisy. Those men and women actually DID something, instead of
just talking about it all the time.
--
Insert witty saying here.
David R
2007-01-25 05:54:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East.
Well, that says a lot about how idiotic you are. Not only do you praise a
communist mass-murdering tyrant as a "great national leader", but now you
call a holocaust denier "rational".
Nice morals you've got there, fagbags.
you're just jealous because this raghead is smarter and more effective than
that
ignorant LOSING and FAILING hillbilly in the white house,,

I think the raghead would beat his ass and make him wear a turban,

yours too
t***@gmail.com
2007-01-25 06:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David R
Post by Tex
Post by fasgnadh
I was sitting in the dentists waiting room and picked up
Time magazine. One of their 2006 people of influence was Iranian
President Ahmadinejad> I read the Time interview with him,
and was surprised, he didn't have two heads, he was rational
and spoke about the need for negotiation to settle the problems
in the Middle East.
Well, that says a lot about how idiotic you are. Not only do you praise a
communist mass-murdering tyrant as a "great national leader", but now you
call a holocaust denier "rational".
Nice morals you've got there, fagbags.
you're just jealous because this raghead is smarter and more effective than
that
ignorant LOSING and FAILING hillbilly in the white house,,
Pity you've got no evidence for that
Post by David R
I think the raghead would beat his ass and make him wear a turban,
yours too
ooooh, scary :)
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