Post by PetzlBeen done many times before loosen the rag on your head and read
You realise, I hope, that every time you say something like this, your
credibility decreases. It's not as though this statement in any way
supports or advances your argument. All it does it demonstrate your
intrinsic bias.
Post by PetzlEthnic Minorities are almost exclusively Muslims in Denmark. They
comprise 4% of Denmark's 5.3 million population.
Last year 68% of the 500 convicted rapists in Denmark were from this
group.
for every 100,000 people Native Danes produced 3 convicted rapists per
year. for every 100,000 people Muslim Immigrants produced 150
convicted rapists per year.
Startling.
And if you read one of the articles you supplied, it quite clearly
identifies the cause of the problem - Muslim Immigrants who (in their
view) are being persecuted, and so act out against the community that
persecutes them. The article I refer to is the "Criminologist:
immigrants are rape champions" article, which describes the cause and
effect process that leads to these acts.
You will find that, in more tolerant societies, these immigrant rapes
are far less common, on par with crimes by natives of the country.
Post by PetzlFor comparison the rape & attempted rape rate in 1994 in Australia was
27 rapes per 100,000 Sexual assault rate was 70 per 100,000. In 2000
this had increased by about 12%. (gone up by 10 since 1970) (In the
Australian case above aren't convicted rapists just confirmed
reports, not all are convicted)
There were some 1800 sentenced sexual assault prisoners in 2001.
Which equates to about 8.5 rapists per 100,000. so Australian are not
much more violent than Danes.
Muslims are about 0.6% of Australia's population at present.
And the point of this is? You quote a statistic for the rate of
rape/attempted rape, then note that muslims are 0.6% of the population.
What is the purpose of this? Are you trying to conduct a proof by
meaningless implication, or something?
Post by PetzlWe don't have ethniciticty-crime statistics in Australia after 1998.
We stopped keeping them for reasons of Anti-Racism ideology.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/May00/Crane.htm
And the reason why we stopped keeping them is because of people like
you, who go searching for any data that might justify your xenophobic
opinion. It is a mechanism that protects INNOCENT muslims from being
persecuted because of the actions of a few evil muslims.
Post by Petzl1 In Denmark many Muslims are blacks, who have a statistically higher
crime rate by 6-8 than whites in several countries including the USA.
(Go the http://www.amren.com and down load the 'color of crime' after
a search) I'm not sure about this as I don't now if blacks are over
represented in comparison to Arab Muslims)
First of all, Blacks are still persecuted in the US, and so the
argument about "persecution -> criminal acts" applies. If you have a
look in a black-dominant country, you will find the statistics reverse
themselves.
Second of all, 'many muslims are blacks' is not exactly an accurate
statement. If just 10 muslims are black in Denmark, then this statement
could be considered true, so your statement is meaningless.
Third of all, you now associate crimes committed by muslims with crimes
committed by blacks? How absurd! You are showing yourself to be a true
white-supremacist.
Post by Petzl2 Islam defines the 'other' or kaffir as inferior quite passionately
at times and thus rape is directed outside of the community.
No, it doesn't. Try talking to a native islamic in australia. They can
tell you the truth about this issue - those who are not muslims are not
intrinsically considered valid targets by Islam. It is those who attack
Islam that are valid targets, according to the Quran (at least
according to the site I gave in a previous response -
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Islamic_terrorism )
Post by Petzl3 Muslims get caught up in not assimilating because of the
denomination
western lefty intellectuals subject western
religion, culture and history to. Living in a crap suburb with no
positive images of western culture why would you?
So now it is the Muslim's fault for being poor? Give me a break. They
live in crap suburbs because they cannot afford to live in uptown
neighbourhoods. They collect into little mini-communities because they
are persecuted by others. The same phenomenon is seen with all
immigrant populations - they accumulate into little communities, like
Greek areas, Lebanese areas, Chinese areas, etc. It has nothing to do
with Islam, and everything to do with lack of tolerance by people like
you.
Post by Petzl4 Most Muslim cultures the marriages are mostly consanguineous and
arranged. They don't understand that western girls find their own
partners.
Muslims have the right to arrange marriages for their children. We may
not like it, but there is no law against it, and there are christian
customs that offend Muslim sensibility - it's called tolerance. We may
not like people being forced to marry, but we must accept it as part of
their culture.
Post by PetzlA similar pattern emerges for Norway.
And the same arguments I gave above apply.
Post by PetzlPlease support the gathering of these stats. Using them we can deal
with the problems and save much suffering and maybe some lives.
Truth is not hatred.
Statistics is not Truth, either. As was once said, "Lies, Damned Lies
and Statistics", and it is true. The reason they do not give truth is
that they must be correctly interpreted. The Denmark statistics do not
tell you that Muslims are evil - less than 0.2% of Muslims in denmark
commit crimes. They tell you that there is a problem between the Native
Danish community and the Muslim Immigrant community, and the solution
is not to separate the two even further, but to assimilate the society.
It is easy to blame Muslims and Muslims alone for the crimes, but there
is more to the story than 'muslim bad'.
Post by PetzlDo you want the rape rate to double?
And why would it do that?
Post by PetzlOur old immigration policies (per Ruddocks crossing the floor) worked
to protect Australians.
The new ones which are based in impractical principles are hurting us,
especially working class Australians.
Nonsense. Do you really think the solution to crime is to stop
criminals from entering the country? Do you honestly think it is that
easy? The only way to solve the problem is to fully assimilate people
of other beliefs, people of other backgrounds, into the society. Their
culture will adapt, as will ours, and the crime rate will drop.
Plus, do you think that Muslims have a monopoly on race-based crime?
Have a look at all of the people who went on rampages, torching Mosques
and stoning muslim children (CHILDREN!!!) after Sept 11. The people
killed and injured by these rampages were innocent of crimes, but just
because they looked arab, and were muslims, they were killed and
injured.
It is hypocritical to think that Muslims are evil for the actions of a
small portion of them, but not the same of Christians.
Post by PetzlI'm not saying all Muslims, Arabs or blacks are bad. Just that they
may have higher incidences of low IQ, psychopathic personality and
maladjusted cultures in their midis and we must not shackle ourselves
with useless ideologies.
And your assertion that they have higher incidences of those things is
unjustified and xenophobic. You also demonstrate your White-supremacist
views by working 'Blacks' into the discussion. You are not interested
in truth, you just hate those who are not White Christians who think
the same as you. You are a sheep, following your leader blindly in the
hope that you will reach a better life. I am an individual, searching
for ways to make my life better, and improve the life of others.
Post by PetzlMuslim rape concern
http://cphpost.periskop.dk/default.asp?id=16937
Alarmed at last week's police statistics, which revealed that in 68%
of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic
minority, leading Muslim organizations have now formed an alliance to
fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation
immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls.
Promising demonstrations and an information campaign, Babar Baig from
Minhaj ul Quran said that Islam totally condemns rape and the
violation of women. 'We feel very strongly that as a Muslim youth
organisation, we have a responsibility to speak out about this
problem,' said Baig, whose organisation, alongside the Union of Muslim
Students (FASM) and the Organisation of Pakistani Students and
Academics (OPSA) announced demonstrations in Copenhagen, Odense and
Århus.
And this proves my point. There are plenty of Muslim organisations
coming out against the rapes, and trying to raise community awareness
of problems on both sides. They are trying to assimilate the muslims
into the greater Danish community.
You, on the other hand, are playing the NIMBY game, where you are happy
for the rapes to continue, as long as they are not in your country. You
think that expelling Muslims from australia, you will stop a phenomenon
that is not occurring. You are ignorant of the world, and I hope you
read this article again, and realise your misjudgements.
Post by PetzlCriminologist: immigrants are rape champions
http://cphpost.periskop.dk/default.asp?id=15630
If one leading expert is to be believed, the sharp rise in the number
of rapes in this over the last 5 years is largely attributable to a
group of unemployed and alienated immigrants.
'Over the last 5-10 years there has an increasing tendency to
marginalise and alienate immigrants,' says Professor Flemming Balvig,
a criminologist at Copenhagen University. 'As a result, many second
generation immigrants have reacted against this through various types
of criminal activity, including rape.' Although the number of reported
rapes reached a peak of 600 in 1986 after which it fell steadily until
1996, since then the figure has increased again from 388 to 497,
equivalent to a whopping 25 per cent jump.
'Rape is often committed by young men for whom it also represents a
kind of proof of manhood. And if you look at the figures, men with an
immigrant background are grossly over-represented, compared to the
proportion of the population they make up,' he maintains. His theory
is backed up by a 1998 Justice Ministry survey on crime, which found
that immigrants were over-represented by an average of 46 per cent. In
addition, the recent publication of a report from the Copenhagen
police shows that 47.5 per cent of prisoners on remand for serious
crimes such as murder, attempted murder and rape come from immigrant
backgrounds. 'Although the percentage of foreigners committing rape is
proportionally higher than it should be, on average we only get one
and a half rapes per month, so we are actually talking about a very
small number of cases,' says Kurt Jensen, who is in charge of of
'Those immigrants who do commit rape belong to a hardcore group who
have been considerably marginalised and alienated and who are
extremely criminally inclined already. These are people who don't care
what happens to them as they feel things can't get any worse anyway.
They simply use and abuse others as it suits them. But even if we
compare this group with other Danish-born people in the same
situation, i.e. with no job and no prospects, the immigrant group is
still over-represented.'
This article makes my point, also. It clearly describes that the
perpetrators of these crimes are part of a small community that has
been marginalised and alienated by the greater community. Add to that
the fact that your statistics earlier (150 rapes a year) clearly
disagree with the statistics in this article (1.5 rapes a month, or 18
rapes a year), and a more detailed picture forms - you ignore those
facts which do not fit your world-view, and then claim to know the
truth.
Post by PetzlPortrait of an exile: refugee faces 12 years in prison
http://cphpost.periskop.dk/default.asp?id=18124
Abdul Aziz Wahhab, a Jordanian citizen granted asylum in Denmark, has
been sentenced to 12 years in prison in Russia for terrorist
collaboration and sexual offences.
A Palestinian refugee from Jordan who was granted asylum here in 1992
on false grounds, has been sentenced to 12½ years imprisonment in
Russia for waging jihad with Chechen militants in their struggle
against Russian authorities. Wahhab was also found guilty of raping
underage girls. According to the judge, Wahhab was eligible for a
prison sentence of up to 46 years, according to Russia's criminal
code. However, his sentence was reduced because he is the father of 2
small children. In addition to time served, Wahhab will pay 50,000
rubles (approximately DKK 15,000) to each of the five young women he
was convicted of sexually
abusing. According to acquaintances in Denmark, Abdul Aziz Wahhab was
one of the so-called "Afghan Arabs" who fought against the Soviet
Union during their occupation in the 1980s, a power struggle which
paved the way for the extremist Taliban-regime in Afghanistan.
Wahhab was convicted of illegally crossing the border into Russia,
criminal possession of a weapon, travelling under false documents,
membership of an illegal armed organisation and rape of underage
girls. He was one of the followers of the militant Chechen leader Arbi
Barajev, who masterminded the murder of 4 British engineers in 1999,
and was also a notorious hostage-taker and kingpin of the slave trade.
Barajev was killed by Russian authorities in June last year. Wahhab
told Danish authorities in 1991 that he was an Iraqi citizen, though
he was, in fact, from Jordan. Because he was granted asylum on false
grounds, authorities in this country have not yet concluded whether he
will
be granted the right to return to Denmark after serving his prison
sentence.
Wahhab's wife and two small children still live in this country, which
will
likely be taken into consideration when making the decision whether or
not
to allow him to return.
After his asylum grant in this country, Wahhab evidently travelled to
Turkey
on several occasions (from where terrorist groups sent operatives to
Chechnya). He was later reported to have been in Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, the Balkans, Sweden, and Germany. In the meantime, his
family remained in Denmark on welfare benefits. Wahhab travelled to
Chechnya in 1999 and was apprehended by Russian authorities in March
2000. Upon his arrest he claimed to be a businessman from Denmark.
Wahhab has announced he will appeal against his sentence.
Now you are resorting to an example of a SINGLE muslim committing evil
acts. Would you like me to supply you with examples of Christians doing
the same thing? Or Jews? Or Hindus? There are plenty individuals out
there, of all faiths, who commit abhorrent acts, and others that will
support those acts, irrespective of faith.
Post by Petzlhttp://jewishworldreview.com/0802/steyn.html
http://jewishworldreview.com/0802/pipes.html
Steyn's article is xenophobic drivel written by a Jew who is very
strongly biased. The article by 'pipes' is a little more reasonable,
but fails to look any further than skin-deep.
He argues that the reason why muslims commit the crimes they do in
Denmark is because of a list of things, but he doesn't look at WHY
those things occur:
'Living on the dole' - big surprise that people immigrating from poor
countries end up on the dole. Indeed, immigrants of all nationalities
have a higher incidence of living on the dole than natives. It proves
nothing.
'Engaging in crime' - Any why are they engaging in crime? The answer
can be found in the article you supplied, the one titled
"Criminologist: immigrants are rape champions". The leading cause of
crime by immigrants is persecution and alienation.
'Self-imposed isolation' - Not exactly self-imposed. Would you live
near people who discriminate against you? I wouldn't. If I had a choice
of living with people like me that consider me an equal, and people who
treat me as inferior and evil, I know which community I would choose.
'Importing unacceptable customs' - Some of the customs are against the
law, and the authority need to make this clear to the immigrants. If
they wish to follow the illegal customs, then they should choose
another country. Other customs only go against our cultural
sensibilities, and those are completely acceptable (like forced
marriage), as there is no law against it.
'Fomenting anti-Semitism' - Ironic, considering the fact that all Arabs
are Semites. What they are fomenting is anti-judaism, and they are no
different from people like you who foment anti-islamicism. Your view is
hypocritical.
'Seeking Islamic law' - Only a small proportion of the muslim community
want to spread islam by force. Many would like islamic law in their
adopted country, but it is just like Christians wanting their belief
incorporated into the law of their country. There is nothing wrong with
peaceful attempts to convert people.
The rest of the article is drivel that has nothing to do with our
discussion.