Discussion:
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
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Vox
2010-12-08 01:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010



The US establishment is on a war footing and Julian Assange is the target.
The Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has accused him of launching "attack
on America's foreign policy interests [and].an attack on the international
community".

Assange has not stolen anything or concocted anything. He has not killed
anyone or conspired to do so. His crime is simply that he has published the
comments and thoughts of others. He is wanted, because those others happen
to be the agents and mouthpieces of the most powerful military industrial
complex in the world. Their words are an unedited memoir of power that was
never to be published.

Power doesn't want people knowing what it thinks. It doesn't want people
knowing what it secretly says. Truth is a private matter for power; it is
not public interest material. The public wouldn't know how to interpret it.
We don't have the ability to contextualise it or understand it. We are the
naïve young lawyer with the Colonel in the dock, infuriated, exasperated. We
cannot cope with it, cannot handle it.

Yet the publishing of the first instalment of over 250,000 leaked United
States embassy cables is a bombshell not simply because of what the
documents contain. The awful reality of the nature of capitalist power is in
fact most starkly illustrated by the response.

The establishment and their defenders have had a schizophrenic reaction to
the revelations. On the one hand they have tried to down play the
significance of leaked documents. The Washington Post labelled the documents
"embarrassing.but otherwise harmless." The Post's evaluation was echoed by
editorialists across the country and around the world.

They are partly right. Is it news to anyone for example that the US
establishment involves itself in secret wars and lies about it? The real
surprise is that the media establishment - which is often found uncritically
promoting the lies of the White House, which routinely attacks the
credibility of the US's enemies and which promotes itself as a pivotal
institution upholding freedom and democracy - can admit with indifference
that the so-called democratic establishment it fawns over is simply full of
it.

The Financial Times calmly explained that "Much of the new information is
unsurprising. US diplomats, like their counterparts, spy as well as lie."
The LA Times reassured its readers that "Few of the disclosures would
surprise anyone who followed the practice of foreign diplomacy, in which
private conversations are often at odds with public pronouncements."

Charles Krauthammer, a Washington Post op-ed columnist, was bluntest of all:

The problem is not that the purloined cables exposed US hypocrisy or
double-dealing. Good God, that's the essence of diplomacy. That's what we
do; that's what everyone does.

"That's what we do." What sort of a system is this where those whose job it
is supposed to be to hold those in power to account can be so blasé in the
face of rank corruption of the highest order, at the highest levels? On what
other planet could such forthright, frank assessment be useful propaganda?
"Lies, assassinations, rank hypocrisy? Never mind, it has always been like
this don't you know?"

Worse, there is an open defence of concealment. The Financial Times
editorialised: "In order for states to conduct their affairs
effectively.some secrets must remain." In an op-ed piece in the New York
Times, Paul W. Schroeder insisted that "secrecy is nowhere more essential
than in foreign relations". Part of his argument is that without their
secrecy being protected, those in power become more secretive. How utterly
degenerated is the institution of capitalist media that it can casually
admit that our rulers are on one hand unworthy of trust, on the other
deserving of more secrecy.

The scale of indifference of the editorialists is matched only by the
intensity of the hysteria being shown by the political class and their
attack dogs against Assange the messenger. He is, according to President
Obama, an international criminal.

Republican Pete King, the incoming chairman of the House Homeland Security
Committee, has called on Clinton to declare Wikileaks a foreign terrorist
organisation. "By doing that," he told radio presenter Kyle McMorrow, "we
will be able to.go after anyone who provides them help or contributions or
assistance whatsoever". Krauthammer, who believes that "the leaks have done
major damage", opined about precedents and repercussions:

Franklin Roosevelt had German saboteurs tried by military tribunal and
executed. Assange has done more damage to the United States than all six of
those Germans combined. Find him. Let the world see a man who can't sleep in
the same bed on consecutive nights, who fears the long arm of American
justice.

Veiled calls for execution and moves to undermine free speech and democratic
rights even further: this is American democracy in the twenty-first century.
Emaciated, paranoid, unpredictable, vengeful; intent on punishing any who
even repeat the private utterances of power.

Every time our own governments increase surveillance over our lives or hand
more powers to intelligence officers or policing agencies, we are told: "If
you've done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." Now the
shoe is on the other foot, and the double standard is exposed. The utter
corruption of the institutions of capitalist power is on display for all to
see, yet the terrible realities at the heart of the system are footnotes to
the intrigue in the embassies.

The war machine continues its brutality in the Middle East, but the biggest
threat to the "international community" comes from those who jeopardise the
image of the killers. Millions are being thrown out of their homes, having
their futures shredded by the financial establishment, but the scandal lies
in the disclosure of the discussions.

Assange is an Australian citizen who is now being hounded by a terrorist
state, leading political figures in which have called for him to be hunted
down like al-Qaeda. He should be given protection from the deranged zealots
who run US capitalism. Instead the Australian government is backing the US
administration all down the line. But Assange and Wikileaks have done
nothing wrong. In fact they are providing a service to democracy the world
over.

The establishment is moving quickly to try to shut down his operations. If
Assange hasn't done anything illegal, they will change the game to indict
him. Already, Democrat senator Joseph Lieberman has introduced legislation
to amend a section of the Espionage Act in order to criminalise the
publishing of information "concerning the identity of a classified source or
informant of an element of the intelligence community of the United States,
[or]concerning the human intelligence activities of the United States or any
foreign government". What an abuse of democracy.

Assange is facing sexual assault charges in Sweden and is now being pursued
vigorously by Interpol. Whether or not the claims are true, he is being
targeted because of his political actions, not his personal affairs. His
lawyers have said that they will fight extradition orders against him, which
they are right to do - he is unlikely to receive a fair trial.

Showing absolute contempt for democratic principles, Attorney-General Robert
McClelland has not only promised to support and assist the US in its pursuit
of Assange, but has ordered the federal police to investigate him as well.
Writing in the British Guardian, Assange responded to this despicable
development:

This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen -
does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks
at the first possible opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and
diplomats can be invited to the best US embassy cocktail parties?

Not one Labor MP has spoken out about this vilification and political
targeting of an Australian citizen. This is deplorable. Assange is to be
commended and defended for his defiance. He, the others involved in
Wikileaks, and those who risk their careers and their lives to leak the
documents show a commitment to the cause of democracy greater than any
elected representative in the Australian parliaments.

Assange is particularly uncompromising, and clearly has a genuine hatred for
those who abuse their power - a characteristic missing from pretty much
every respectable political current described as an "alternative" in the
world today. He recently commented in an interview with Germany's Der
Spiegel:

[T]hose who commit abuses against humanity or against the law find abusing
legitimate secrecy to conceal their abuse all too easy. People of good
conscience have always revealed abuses by ignoring abusive strictures. It is
not Wikileaks that decides to reveal something. It is a whistleblower or a
dissident who decides to reveal it. Our job is to make sure that these
individuals are protected, the public is informed and the historical record
is not denied.

We all only live once. So we are obligated to make good use of the time that
we have and to do something that is meaningful and satisfying. This is
something that I find meaningful and satisfying. I enjoy helping people who
are vulnerable. And I enjoy crushing bastards.

The world needs more people with this sort of conviction, people who are
prepared to put their money where their mouths are.




PROTEST TO DEFEND JULIAN ASSANGE AND WIKILEAKS, AND STOP THE SUPPRESSION OF
FREEDOM OF SPEECH

THURSDAY DECEMBER 9
BRISBANE: 5.30pm, Brisbane Square, Top of Queen St Mall, Brisbane

Click 'Attending' on FACEBOOK and invite all of your friends

FRIDAY DECEMBER 10
MELBOURNE:
4.30pm, State Library as part of the World Human Rights Day rally
Click 'Attending' on FACEBOOK and invite all of your friends

SYDNEY:
1pm, Sydney Town Hall.Speakers include Antony Lowenstein, the Pirate Party &
others.
Facebook event:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/event.php?eid=161656067211736
The Human Rights Day speak-out on Friday December 10, 5.30pm at Sydney Town
Hall has taken on a new urgency. Please help spread the word.
Facebook event:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/event.php?eid=162846907086940&index=1

http://sa.org.au/imperialism-and-war/3019-wikileaks-truth-is-a-crime-in-an-empire-of-lies
Vox
2010-12-08 04:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Protests to defend Julian Assange and Wikileaks, Dec 9-12

Supporters of the website Wikileaks will mobilise around Australia on Friday
December 10 to protest against the backlash it has faced for its release of
more than 250,000 US government cables.

The rally date coincides with International Human Rights day. Rally
organisers say the Australian government has failed to uphold the human
rights of Wikileaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange.

"The Australian government should be ashamed for its attacks on Wikileaks,
which has been charged with no crime", Sydney rally spokesperson Simon
Butler said.

"Australia should not join the campaign to censor Wikileaks. Wikileaks has
released evidence of government lies and duplicity - information that, as
citizens, we have a right to know.

"We want the Gillard government to make sure Julian Assange has the same
basic rights as every other Australian citizen. Threats have been made
against Assange's life, the Australian government has a duty to protect him,
not threaten him."

JOIN THE PROTEST to Defend Assange and WikiLeaks on Human Rights Day,
December 10:

Sydney
DATE: 10 December
Time: 13:00 - 15:00
Location: Sydney Town Hall, 483 George St, Sydney
Speakers include Antony Lowenstein, the Pirate Party & others.
For more info, please contact:
***@gmail.com
Rally contact: Kylie Gilbert 0451 827 693
Media contact: Simon Butler 0421 231 011
Facebook page

Melbourne
DATE: 10 December
Time: 16:30 - 19:30
Location: State Library Lawns, 328 Swanston St, Melbourne (as part of the
Human Rights Day rally)
Facebook page

Brisbane
DATE: 9 December
Time: 17:30 - 20:30
Location: Brisbane Square, Queen St Mall, Brisbane
DATE: 10 December
Time: 12:00 - 15:00
Location: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, 295 Ann Street, Brisbane.
Speakers include Andrew Bartett. More TBC.
Rally information: Liam Hanlon 0435 266 613
Media contact: Jim McIlroy 0423 741 734
Facebook page (Dec 9)
Facebook page (Dec 10)

Hobart
DATE: 11 December
Time: 12:00 - 15:00
Location: Hobart Parliament Lawns, Salamanca
Facebook page

Adelaide
DATE: 12 December
Time: 13:00 - 14:30
Location: Parliament House, North Terrace, Adelaide
See the leaflet here
Facebook page


http://www.socialist-alliance.org/page.php?page=1070
Peter Webb
2010-12-08 04:53:16 UTC
Permalink
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There are
a lot of tricky issues.

But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought
back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the
material on there own websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where all
the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus". Except here its "I am Julian".

That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part of
something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
unknown
2010-12-08 05:40:45 UTC
Permalink
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There are a lot of
tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought back, through
the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the material on there own
websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am
Spartacus". Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the internet is very
heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part of something more powerful than
national governments. Feel proud.
The first 1,000 were useful, the rest would have been better sending $1 for every gig they
didn't get to host or download.

Really, whatever you decide , giant assault/scam, possibly transient good thing that ends
in a scam, pure intentions and great boon for humanity, if its worth spending 15 minutes
of your time thinking about something that you decide is trending good
its worth sending $5 or $10.
Figure it as a video rental for watching 'Indiana Assange and the Tree of Knowledge' in
real time.

Opinion is useless if it doesn't have a result.
Vox
2010-12-08 06:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to
host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus".
Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all
part of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
I agree with you.

Once I heard Amazon stoped hosting the wikileaks site I thought it was over
, alas that is not the case.

Its amazing the number of people who have come forward to support Assange
and replicate the wikileaks site .



These events give hope for humanity, for a faired more democratic world
without the duplicitous double speak BS spin politicians.



http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/12/07/john-lennon-and-julian-assange-the-faces-of-peace-and-truth/
jg
2010-12-08 07:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There
are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought
back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the
material on there own websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where
all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus". Except here its "I am
Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part
of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.

Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that isn't
trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his actions
revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
Peter Webb
2010-12-08 07:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There
are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought
back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the
material on there own websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where all
the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus". Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part
of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which case
he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?

You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't even
copyrighted.

And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the world,
when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that isn't
trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his actions
revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
jg
2010-12-08 08:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to
host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus".
Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all
part of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't
even copyrighted.
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that
isn't trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his
actions revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
HD
2010-12-08 11:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to
host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus".
Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part
of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't even
copyrighted.
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that isn't
trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his actions
revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
Maybe the yanks are terrified that among the documents are revelation of
what the CIA has been up too.
jg
2010-12-08 12:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by HD
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people
to host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am
Spartacus". Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence
the internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are
all part of something more powerful than national governments. Feel
proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in
which case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't
even copyrighted.
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that
isn't trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his
actions revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
Maybe the yanks are terrified that among the documents are revelation of
what the CIA has been up too.
Of course they are. Telling tales out of school is only meant to impress
those who read the sunday papers and public apologies/explanations just
a diplomatic exercise as well, like a fire drill.
Peter Webb
2010-12-08 11:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't even
copyrighted.
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that isn't
trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his actions
revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
The "documents" did not physically exist; as I said it is potentially theft
only of intellectual property. And he didn't steal them. He just distributed
them, as indeed did most of the world's media as soon as they got hold of
it. Jail him and you should also jail Rupert Murdoch.
jg
2010-12-08 12:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't
even copyrighted.
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that
isn't trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his
actions revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
The "documents" did not physically exist; as I said it is potentially
theft only of intellectual property. And he didn't steal them. He just
distributed them, as indeed did most of the world's media as soon as
they got hold of it. Jail him and you should also jail Rupert Murdoch.
You are using that as an explanation of why the yanks don't want to lock
him up? I say either some of the facts are incorrect or they have
decided to get him another way, so James Bond it shakes my faith in
human progress.
unknown
2010-12-08 15:03:35 UTC
Permalink
You are using that as an explanation of why the yanks don't want to lock him up? I say
either some of the facts are incorrect or they have decided to get him another way, so
James Bond it shakes my faith in human progress.
They don't really want him, they want to scare the bejesus out of anyone tempted to do the
same in the future.

Unfortunately for them it appears they can't actually do much apart from put new locks on
the stable door, the fence, the gate and take down the 'free horses' sign out the front.
Anything they do just draws attention to their failings.
It was a massive security breach of their own making, 3 million people with access, thats
more of a discrimination issue than security.

After nearly a decade they couldn't fin bin laden, now they can barely touch someone who
gives them theri phone number and current address...provided a lot of other people are
also looking that way.
Once people lose interest, that may be another thing.
jg
2010-12-08 17:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
You are using that as an explanation of why the yanks don't want to lock him up? I say
either some of the facts are incorrect or they have decided to get him another way, so
James Bond it shakes my faith in human progress.
They don't really want him, they want to scare the bejesus out of anyone tempted to do the
same in the future.
....

And it's easier or more scary to frame him than jail him for a real crime?
fasgnadh
2010-12-08 20:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people
to host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus".
Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all
part of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
Assange did not steal those documents. He published them, as did the
newspapers of the world.

When is Rupert Murdoch going to be arrested and charged with rape? B^p
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't
even copyrighted.
Oh, there is no doubt they were stolen, the US soldier responsible has
already been tried.

Now they have to cover their embarrassment and security failures by
finding a goat to scape.
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Correct. Even the ABC is reporting that Australian Politician Mark
Arbib is a US tool.

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/mark-arbib-aka-cia-agent-007-20101209-18q50.html?from=age_sb

If Tony Abbott repeats it he should be charged as well! B^D

The new ThoughtCrime: "Receiving Stolen Information"

The approach taken by the Guardian gets my support.. they
filtered and would not publish anything they thought could
harm soldiers in the field, threaten national security, or
impede the fight against terror..
.. but the rest was treated as 'in the public interest'.

truth with honour.



---------

"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing" - Thomas Jefferson

"Where there is no vision, the people perish." - Proverbs 29:18
jg
2010-12-08 21:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general.
There are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has
fought back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people
to host the material on there own websites. Its like the movie
"Spartacus", where all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus".
Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all
part of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
What did he steal, exactly? What went missing?
"Thousands of secret US Military and State Department documents" says
today's newspaper.
Assange did not steal those documents. He published them, as did the
newspapers of the world.
Try that in court dude.
Post by fasgnadh
When is Rupert Murdoch going to be arrested and charged with rape? B^p
What classified state military secrets has he stolen?
Post by fasgnadh
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
You could try theft of Intellectual Property, but the cables weren't
even copyrighted.
Oh, there is no doubt they were stolen, the US soldier responsible has
already been tried.
Now they have to cover their embarrassment and security failures by
finding a goat to scape.
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
And whatever crime he committed, so has every major newspaper in the
world, when they in turn re-published the same material.
Correct. Even the ABC is reporting that Australian Politician Mark
Arbib is a US tool.
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/mark-arbib-aka-cia-agent-007-20101209-18q50.html?from=age_sb
If Tony Abbott repeats it he should be charged as well! B^D
The new ThoughtCrime: "Receiving Stolen Information"
The approach taken by the Guardian gets my support.. they
filtered and would not publish anything they thought could
harm soldiers in the field, threaten national security, or
impede the fight against terror..
.. but the rest was treated as 'in the public interest'.
truth with honour.
Just might keep them out of jail too. If plans of a weapon were stolen
and used as a result of you making them public, you think you won't be
considered part of the theft or breaching national security?

So far all the "secrets" I have heard are just telling tales out of
school, could be much harder for a prosecution or big sentence for that
than for publishing submarine plans.
Fred
2010-12-09 00:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Oh, there is no doubt they were stolen, the US soldier responsible has
already been tried.
Now they have to cover their embarrassment and security failures by
finding a goat to scape.
The Obama regime seems to think that arresting Mr. Assange and trying
to shut down the Wikileaks Foundation will some how stop the coming
Bank of America exposures.

---
Wikileaks Cablegate documents: http://213.251.145.96/cablegate.html
Wikileaks mass mirror: http://www.wikileaks.nl/mass-mirror.html
.VFW.
2010-12-09 01:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by fasgnadh
Oh, there is no doubt they were stolen, the US soldier responsible has
already been tried.
Now they have to cover their embarrassment and security failures by
finding a goat to scape.
The Obama regime seems to think that arresting Mr. Assange and trying
to shut down the Wikileaks Foundation will some how stop the coming
Bank of America exposures.
---
Wikileaks Cablegate documents: http://213.251.145.96/cablegate.html
Wikileaks mass mirror: http://www.wikileaks.nl/mass-mirror.html
it's Hackivism;
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During
that time we have changed whole governments, but not a single person,
as far as anyone is aware, has been harmed. But the US , with
Australian government connivance, has killed thousands in the past few
months alone.
what happened to supporting whistle-blowers?
The truth shall set you free. and various governments don't like that.
--
Karma, What a concept!
.VFW.
2010-12-09 03:40:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by .VFW.
Post by Fred
Post by fasgnadh
Oh, there is no doubt they were stolen, the US soldier responsible has
already been tried.
Now they have to cover their embarrassment and security failures by
finding a goat to scape.
The Obama regime seems to think that arresting Mr. Assange and trying
to shut down the Wikileaks Foundation will some how stop the coming
Bank of America exposures.
---
Wikileaks Cablegate documents: http://213.251.145.96/cablegate.html
Wikileaks mass mirror: http://www.wikileaks.nl/mass-mirror.html
OK
it's Hackivism;
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During
that time we have changed whole governments, but not a single person,
as far as anyone is aware, has been harmed. But the US , with
Australian government connivance, has killed thousands in the past few
months alone.
what happened to supporting whistle-blowers?
The truth shall set you free. and various governments don't like that.
³WikiLeaks is currently under heavy attack,² the site said in a
message
posted yesterday. ³In order to make it impossible to ever fully
remove
WikiLeaks from the Internet, we need your help. If you have a Unix-
based
server which is hosting a website on the Internet and you want to
give
WikiLeaks some of your hosting resources, you can help!²
http://wikileaks.ch/mass-mirror.html
- Set up an account where WikiLeaks can upload files using RSYNC+SSH
(preferred) or FTP
- Put the WikiLeaks SSH key in this server or create an FTP account
OK?
- Create a virtual host in your web server, which, for example, can
be
wikileaks.yourdomain.com, send the IP address of your server to
WikiLeaks, and the path where WikiLeaks should upload the content (by
filling in a form on this page).
WikiLeaks adds that it will take care of all the rest, sending pages
to
your server and updating them each time data is released.
A mirror site is an exact copy of the original site, offering the
same
information and the same files. Mirror sites are created in order to
distribute the bandwidth load and facilitate large numbers of
simultaneous downloads. It eases the load on the server hosting the
main
site by distributing it around the mirror sites.
According to the latest reports, WikiLeaks is accessible
at
http://www.wikileaks.ch
, a Swiss website address operated by the Swiss
Pirate Party, a political group that estimates that it is getting
3,000
visits a second. Hundreds of mirror sites have already been created.
The Mirror tells it's tale.
--
Karma, What a concept!
ralph
2010-12-08 08:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by jg
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There
are a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought
back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the
material on there own websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where
all the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus". Except here its "I am
Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part
of something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Maybe, but they could be getting behind an ultimately bad cause as mobs can.
I thought I read the information was released as passed its date, a
freedom of information thing, but now they say it was stolen in which
case he would be prosecuted for stealing. But he hasn't been.
You're confusing Bradley Manning with Julian Assange.

Manning is under arrest by the Americans.

If the Americans didn't want the cables released, they really should
have guarded them more closely. Assange's Wikileaks is just the first
of many media outlets who are now publishing this material.
Post by jg
Instead Sweden is trying to extradite him on sex charges - if that isn't
trumped up.... That would give some more credibility to his actions
revealing the movers and shakers as dirty little politicians.
The Swedish charges are just way too coincidental ... and worse, his
accusers are completely protected from any scrutiny so it may be
sometime (or never) before we find out if the charges are warranted or
trumped up thanks to other influences.
Peter Webb
2010-12-08 12:07:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by ralph
The Swedish charges are just way too coincidental ... and worse, his
accusers are completely protected from any scrutiny so it may be
sometime (or never) before we find out if the charges are warranted or
trumped up thanks to other influences.
I don't get this bit, its inconsistent. Sweden is pretty much the last
country on earth to be susceptible to US political influence to manufacture
a trumped up sex charge. Yet apparently the girls didn't complain to the
Police at the time ... but what's in it for Sweden?

One things for sure, this guy must have led a pretty wild lifestyle over the
last few years. He has been travelling continuously for 4 years with his
only address a PO Box in Sydney, and accumulating enough cash for Wikileaks
to build an atomic bomb proof James Bond headquarters.

I suspect this guy knows how to party.
ralph
2010-12-08 08:19:32 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:53:16 +1100, "Peter Webb"
Post by Peter Webb
I am not sure how I feel about the Julian Assange case in general. There are
a lot of tricky issues.
But one thing that has truly delighted me is how the internet has fought
back, through the offers of hundreds or thousands of people to host the
material on there own websites. Its like the movie "Spartacus", where all
the slaves stand up and say "I am Spartacus". Except here its "I am Julian".
That the governments of the western world seem unable to silence the
internet is very heartening. A victory for free speech. We are all part of
something more powerful than national governments. Feel proud.
Agreed.

But, like the ego-maniac or not, the fact Assange is now being
prosecuted on extremely dubious and oh-so-coincidental "sex crime"
charges should be a worry.

The real tragedy would be if the US were ever to get their hands on
him because of these nonsense charges.
unknown
2010-12-08 05:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
...
Post by Vox
Yet the publishing of the first instalment of over 250,000 leaked United States embassy
cables is a bombshell not simply because of what the documents contain. The awful
reality of the nature of capitalist power is in fact most starkly illustrated by the
response.
Whats capitalist got to do with it?

...
Post by Vox
Assange is an Australian citizen who is now being hounded by a terrorist state, leading
political figures in which have called for him to be hunted down like al-Qaeda. He
should be given protection from the deranged zealots who run US capitalism. Instead the
Australian government is backing the US administration all down the line. But Assange
and Wikileaks have done nothing wrong. In fact they are providing a service to democracy
the world over.
'have do nothing wrong' ? there you go same as the other side, our side is perfect, the
other is evil
They have done plenty wrong, are you trying to convince people of the purity or the
reason?
Post by Vox
administration all down the line. But Assange and Wikileaks have done nothing wrong. In
fact they are providing a service to democracy the world over.
As if most people want democracy, if they did then we would probably have it
or by democracy do you the silent majority that always secretly agrees with me you and
the next whacko if only they were free of the lies of the other side?
Personally I am all for trying a real democracy, even if it may even be your best chance
to put a bullet in my head legally.
Post by Vox
This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen - does that mean
anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks at the first possible
opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the
best US embassy cocktail parties?
Bring hicks up if you want to undermine the case.
It invites comparison but there is little good in the association.
Post by Vox
Assange is particularly uncompromising, and clearly has a genuine hatred for those who
abuse their power - a characteristic missing from pretty much every respectable
political current described as an "alternative" in the world today. He recently
[T]hose who commit abuses against humanity or against the law find abusing legitimate
secrecy to conceal their abuse all too easy. People of good conscience have always
revealed abuses by ignoring abusive strictures. It is not Wikileaks that decides to
reveal something. It is a whistleblower or a dissident who decides to reveal it. Our job
is to make sure that these individuals are protected, the public is informed and the
historical record is not denied.
We all only live once. So we are obligated to make good use of the time that we have and
to do something that is meaningful and satisfying. This is something that I find
meaningful and satisfying. I enjoy helping people who are vulnerable. And I enjoy
crushing bastards.
Or he is a master abuser himself. Depends whether he really wants adoration or
emulation.
Emulation would be the hardest, fuck, his massive cast iron balls make my past
singlehanded effort look like a set of pinheads, tiny pinheads, in cold water.
Post by Vox
The world needs more people with this sort of conviction, people who are prepared to put
their money where their mouths are.
Actually they are begging for millions of other peoples $, and there is some internal
disagreement about that.
Post by Vox
PROTEST TO DEFEND JULIAN ASSANGE AND WIKILEAKS, AND STOP THE SUPPRESSION OF FREEDOM OF
SPEECH
THURSDAY DECEMBER 9
BRISBANE: 5.30pm, Brisbane Square, Top of Queen St Mall, Brisbane
Click 'Attending' on FACEBOOK and invite all of your friends
That would be hard, only trendy socialites use facebook.
I may go to the Adelaide one, I will be somewhere away from the crowd.
What better way for the lizard people or Thrung to justify their secrecy than stage a
terrorist attack on a bunch of FOI hipsters?
13 birds with one stone.

So , taking any $ to the rally? What ID proves the gatherer is legit?
Vox
2010-12-08 06:49:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
...
Post by Vox
Yet the publishing of the first instalment of over 250,000 leaked
United States embassy cables is a bombshell not simply because of
what the documents contain. The awful reality of the nature of
capitalist power is in fact most starkly illustrated by the response.
Whats capitalist got to do with it?
Modus operandi= "method of operating" of our society, it's got everything to
do with it.
Its about new markets and penetration there of , the hunt for and
confiscating of resources.

This is why were at where we are, the secrecy, the wars, the diplomatic
speak , the rubbishing of one group of people at the expense of another.
Post by unknown
...
Post by Vox
Assange is an Australian citizen who is now being hounded by a
terrorist state, leading political figures in which have called for
him to be hunted down like al-Qaeda. He should be given protection
from the deranged zealots who run US capitalism. Instead the
Australian government is backing the US administration all down the
line. But Assange and Wikileaks have done nothing wrong. In fact
they are providing a service to democracy the world over.
'have do nothing wrong' ? there you go same as the other side, our
side is perfect, the other is evil
They have done plenty wrong, are you trying to convince people of the
purity or the reason?
These politicians are our "servants" they're elected to represent us , not
pull the wool over our eyes.
Not treat us like idiots who can't comprehend what is going on.
They are trusted to do the right thing, but they have taken us to 2 wars in
the Middle East on LIES and fabrication, they have clearly overstepped their
position.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
administration all down the line. But Assange and Wikileaks have
done nothing wrong. In fact they are providing a service to
democracy the world over.
As if most people want democracy, if they did then we would
probably have it or by democracy do you the silent majority that always
secretly
agrees with me you and the next whacko if only they were free of the
lies of the other side?
I would hope most people would want honesty and transparency of our elected
leaders, otherwise what's the point of elections?
Post by unknown
Personally I am all for trying a real democracy, even if it may even
be your best chance to put a bullet in my head legally.
"put a bullet in my head", I don't get it , why would we want to do that?
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian
citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be
treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so
that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best
US embassy cocktail parties?
Bring hicks up if you want to undermine the case.
It invites comparison but there is little good in the association.
There is strong reason to bring up Hicks, because Like Hicks under the
Liberals , Assange has been tried and sentenced by the current federal
government (ALP) of having committed a crime to be denied a "passport", all
to maintain out relations with the yanks.

Of course , they have backed of from this stance after the uproar in the
media and high profile objections from Geoffrey Robertson, John Pilger,
British film director Ken Loach,etc.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/wikileaks-founde-julian-assange-poised-to-be-labors-david-hicks/story-fn775xjq-1225967649991
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Assange is particularly uncompromising, and clearly has a genuine
hatred for those who abuse their power - a characteristic missing
from pretty much every respectable political current described as an
"alternative" in the world today. He recently commented in an
interview with Germany's Der Spiegel: [T]hose who commit abuses against
humanity or against the law find
abusing legitimate secrecy to conceal their abuse all too easy.
People of good conscience have always revealed abuses by ignoring
abusive strictures. It is not Wikileaks that decides to reveal
something. It is a whistleblower or a dissident who decides to
reveal it. Our job is to make sure that these individuals are
protected, the public is informed and the historical record is not
denied. We all only live once. So we are obligated to make good use of
the
time that we have and to do something that is meaningful and
satisfying. This is something that I find meaningful and satisfying.
I enjoy helping people who are vulnerable. And I enjoy crushing
bastards.
Or he is a master abuser himself. Depends whether he really wants
adoration or emulation.
Emulation would be the hardest, fuck, his massive cast iron balls
make my past singlehanded effort look like a set of pinheads, tiny
pinheads, in cold water.
I always felt it was a bad move to put a face to the wikileaks.org when
Assange appeared to face the media after the Iraq video release.
It only takes one nutter with a gun to snuff him out.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
The world needs more people with this sort of conviction, people who
are prepared to put their money where their mouths are.
Actually they are begging for millions of other peoples $, and there
is some internal disagreement about that.
Post by Vox
PROTEST TO DEFEND JULIAN ASSANGE AND WIKILEAKS, AND STOP THE
SUPPRESSION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH
THURSDAY DECEMBER 9
BRISBANE: 5.30pm, Brisbane Square, Top of Queen St Mall, Brisbane
Click 'Attending' on FACEBOOK and invite all of your friends
That would be hard, only trendy socialites use facebook.
I may go to the Adelaide one, I will be somewhere away from the
crowd. What better way for the lizard people or Thrung to justify their
secrecy than stage a terrorist attack on a bunch of FOI hipsters?
13 birds with one stone.
So , taking any $ to the rally? What ID proves the gatherer is legit?
Keep you money in your pocket, turn up and show your support, that's all
that is required.
unknown
2010-12-08 07:50:25 UTC
Permalink
"Vox" <***@spammail.com> wrote in message news:idn9pr$kq0$***@news.albasani.net...


sorry, got to run, not cutting or editing and missing some comments
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
...
Post by Vox
Yet the publishing of the first instalment of over 250,000 leaked
United States embassy cables is a bombshell not simply because of
what the documents contain. The awful reality of the nature of
capitalist power is in fact most starkly illustrated by the response.
Whats capitalist got to do with it?
Modus operandi= "method of operating" of our society, it's got everything to do with it.
Its about new markets and penetration there of , the hunt for and confiscating of
resources.
This is why were at where we are, the secrecy, the wars, the diplomatic speak , the
rubbishing of one group of people at the expense of another.
Post by unknown
...
Post by Vox
Assange is an Australian citizen who is now being hounded by a
terrorist state, leading political figures in which have called for
him to be hunted down like al-Qaeda. He should be given protection
from the deranged zealots who run US capitalism. Instead the
Australian government is backing the US administration all down the
line. But Assange and Wikileaks have done nothing wrong. In fact
they are providing a service to democracy the world over.
'have do nothing wrong' ? there you go same as the other side, our
side is perfect, the other is evil
They have done plenty wrong, are you trying to convince people of the
purity or the reason?
These politicians are our "servants" they're elected to represent us , not pull the wool
over our eyes.
Not treat us like idiots who can't comprehend what is going on.
They are trusted to do the right thing, but they have taken us to 2 wars in the Middle
East on LIES and fabrication, they have clearly overstepped their position.
Thats crap as well, they are representatives.
Often used crap and useful only to continue the illusion.

And to restate , wikileaks -have- done plenty, insisting on no guilt and purity of cause
is just the same thing that leads the politicians and party hacks to compromise and
secrets.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
administration all down the line. But Assange and Wikileaks have
done nothing wrong. In fact they are providing a service to
democracy the world over.
As if most people want democracy, if they did then we would
probably have it or by democracy do you the silent majority that always secretly
agrees with me you and the next whacko if only they were free of the
lies of the other side?
I would hope most people would want honesty and transparency of our elected leaders,
otherwise what's the point of elections?
Yes, whats the point of electing a representative, thats not a democracy.
Post by unknown
Personally I am all for trying a real democracy, even if it may even
be your best chance to put a bullet in my head legally.
"put a bullet in my head", I don't get it , why would we want to do that?
because you are a looney tree hugger green :-)
no matter
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian
citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be
treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so
that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best
US embassy cocktail parties?
Bring hicks up if you want to undermine the case.
It invites comparison but there is little good in the association.
There is strong reason to bring up Hicks, because Like Hicks under the Liberals ,
Assange has been tried and sentenced by the current federal government (ALP) of having
committed a crime to be denied a "passport", all to maintain out relations with the
yanks.
Of course , they have backed of from this stance after the uproar in the media and high
profile objections from Geoffrey Robertson, John Pilger, British film director Ken
Loach,etc.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/wikileaks-founde-julian-assange-poised-to-be-labors-david-hicks/story-fn775xjq-1225967649991
hicks was a dick
You disagree but from where I hover there is a world of difference , as far as I am
concerned.
Just accept that for now we trend the same way, so much that it makes my skin creep to
even think about it.
Thats another reason not to press the hicks parallel, it works for you as currency, it
works against for me, and I (arrogantly) assume it applies to a sizeable chunk of others.
Post by unknown
Or he is a master abuser himself. Depends whether he really wants
adoration or emulation.
Emulation would be the hardest, fuck, his massive cast iron balls
make my past singlehanded effort look like a set of pinheads, tiny
pinheads, in cold water.
I always felt it was a bad move to put a face to the wikileaks.org when Assange
appeared to face the media after the Iraq video release.
It only takes one nutter with a gun to snuff him out.
They would find a face anyway, some trenchcoat wearing sallow faced longhair if at all
possible, this way he is the quite photogenic suit wearing lightning rod, maybe
sacrificial.
If he were a fat cartman clone barely able to enumciate without showing rotten teeth
would you think the same?
If it is a self sacrificing or self serving makes little difference.

While unlikely it will divert agencies it may just take a bit of heat off the actual
wikileaks and staff.
Assuming it isn't all really a one man show :-)

While assassination is possible it is unlikely, except for a 'troublesome priest' episode
or some loon wanting fame.
Or alternataively if someone wanted to really have a go at the USA.
Plausible deniability only works if people are likely to believe your denial, and if there
aren't likely to be any leaks.

There are a great many things worth worrying more over but people tend to focus on small
topics of the day and ignore the piles of elephant shit all over the room.
Post by unknown
So , taking any $ to the rally? What ID proves the gatherer is legit?
Keep you money in your pocket, turn up and show your support, that's all that is
required.
No actually, a show of support is only required if you just want to do something
trivial and feel good.
Anything less than choking every city will have little chance of influencing the gov't
because they have a better dressed and well heeled constituency to think about, and
themselves. Both left and right green , or rather centre and centre and up the tree.
It is more of a preliminary assessment of numbers, people like mingling to prove they
aren't a loneloon stuck out on limb on this issue.
Vox
2010-12-08 10:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
sorry, got to run, not cutting or editing and missing some comments
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
...
Post by Vox
Yet the publishing of the first instalment of over 250,000 leaked
United States embassy cables is a bombshell not simply because of
what the documents contain. The awful reality of the nature of
capitalist power is in fact most starkly illustrated by the
response.
Whats capitalist got to do with it?
Modus operandi= "method of operating" of our society, it's got
everything to do with it. Its about new markets and penetration
there of , the hunt for and confiscating of resources.
This is why were at where we are, the secrecy, the wars, the
diplomatic speak , the rubbishing of one group of people at the
expense of another.
Post by unknown
...
Post by Vox
Assange is an Australian citizen who is now being hounded by a
terrorist state, leading political figures in which have called for
him to be hunted down like al-Qaeda. He should be given protection
from the deranged zealots who run US capitalism. Instead the
Australian government is backing the US administration all down the
line. But Assange and Wikileaks have done nothing wrong. In fact
they are providing a service to democracy the world over.
'have do nothing wrong' ? there you go same as the other side, our
side is perfect, the other is evil
They have done plenty wrong, are you trying to convince people of
the purity or the reason?
These politicians are our "servants" they're elected to represent us
, not pull the wool over our eyes.
Not treat us like idiots who can't comprehend what is going on.
They are trusted to do the right thing, but they have taken us to 2
wars in the Middle East on LIES and fabrication, they have clearly
overstepped their position.
Thats crap as well, they are representatives.
Often used crap and useful only to continue the illusion.
And to restate , wikileaks -have- done plenty, insisting on no guilt
and purity of cause is just the same thing that leads the politicians
and party hacks to compromise and secrets.
Wikileaks are only the messenger, the content is the issue not wikileaks.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
administration all down the line. But Assange and Wikileaks have
done nothing wrong. In fact they are providing a service to
democracy the world over.
As if most people want democracy, if they did then we would
probably have it or by democracy do you the silent majority that
always secretly agrees with me you and the next whacko if only they
were free of the lies of the other side?
I would hope most people would want honesty and transparency of our
elected leaders, otherwise what's the point of elections?
Yes, whats the point of electing a representative, thats not a democracy.
Well, its what we've got, its better than some of the alternative that have
been tried.
We wait with anticipation for the "great leap forward", but it's not likely
to happen in my life time.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
Personally I am all for trying a real democracy, even if it may even
be your best chance to put a bullet in my head legally.
"put a bullet in my head", I don't get it , why would we want to do that?
because you are a looney tree hugger green :-)
no matter
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian
citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be
treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely
so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the
best US embassy cocktail parties?
Bring hicks up if you want to undermine the case.
It invites comparison but there is little good in the association.
There is strong reason to bring up Hicks, because Like Hicks under
the Liberals , Assange has been tried and sentenced by the current
federal government (ALP) of having committed a crime to be denied a
"passport", all to maintain out relations with the yanks.
Of course , they have backed of from this stance after the uproar in
the media and high profile objections from Geoffrey Robertson, John
Pilger, British film director Ken Loach,etc.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/wikileaks-founde-julian-assange-poised-to-be-labors-david-hicks/story-fn775xjq-1225967649991
hicks was a dick
You disagree but from where I hover there is a world of difference ,
as far as I am concerned.
Just accept that for now we trend the same way, so much that it
makes my skin creep to even think about it.
Thats another reason not to press the hicks parallel, it works for
you as currency, it works against for me, and I (arrogantly) assume
it applies to a sizeable chunk of others.
Hicks got involved in Serbian Kosovo war way before the war on terror became
the "in thing" and like John Walker Lindh , he got caught in the wrong place
at the wrong time.

Putting aside weather you think he is guilty of anything, the way he was
treated was botched by US & Australia, and there will always be doubt of his
true guilt or innocence.

I can't see why your "skin creeps", as I'm not a blind follower of Ideology,
I pick and choose what I thing is practical and is going to work.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
Or he is a master abuser himself. Depends whether he really wants
adoration or emulation.
Emulation would be the hardest, fuck, his massive cast iron balls
make my past singlehanded effort look like a set of pinheads, tiny
pinheads, in cold water.
I always felt it was a bad move to put a face to the wikileaks.org when
Assange appeared to face the media after the Iraq video release.
It only takes one nutter with a gun to snuff him out.
They would find a face anyway, some trenchcoat wearing sallow faced
longhair if at all possible, this way he is the quite photogenic suit
wearing lightning rod, maybe sacrificial.
If he were a fat cartman clone barely able to enumciate without
showing rotten teeth would you think the same?
If it is a self sacrificing or self serving makes little difference.
I don't think the organisation depends on him to continue to operate, its
way to big now, bigger than Assange.
In recent days I have seen others professionally front for the media , so I'm
of the opinion that when they needed a front person, Assange was
chosen/volunteered to take on the role.
Post by unknown
While unlikely it will divert agencies it may just take a bit of heat
off the actual wikileaks and staff.
Assuming it isn't all really a one man show :-)
Agreed, it's not a one man show, and it's diverting from the content of the
leaks .
Post by unknown
While assassination is possible it is unlikely, except for a
'troublesome priest' episode or some loon wanting fame.
Or alternataively if someone wanted to really have a go at the USA.
Plausible deniability only works if people are likely to believe your
denial, and if there aren't likely to be any leaks.
There is no accounting for the nutters in this world.
It may even be favours from the Russian mafia, mossad whomever, that want
to get into US's good books.
Post by unknown
There are a great many things worth worrying more over but people
tend to focus on small topics of the day and ignore the piles of
elephant shit all over the room.
Yes there are some serious stuff like,

*The Afghani vice president caught bringing in $52 Million CASH into UAE
*Most of the financing of terrorist are coming from the UAE, Americas ally
and not Tehran or North Korea.
* Bush admitted approving torture in his Autobiography.
* The Us administration leaned on the Spanish government not to pursue the
killing of a Spanish reporter at the start of the Iraq war, when they
shelled the hotel where the Press were staying.

*US's blind support for Israel's crimes against Palestinians

* The collateral murder video, where reuters journalist were gunned down.
.etc.
Post by unknown
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
So , taking any $ to the rally? What ID proves the gatherer is legit?
Keep you money in your pocket, turn up and show your support, that's
all that is required.
No actually, a show of support is only required if you just want to
do something trivial and feel good.
Anything less than choking every city will have little chance of
influencing the gov't because they have a better dressed and well
heeled constituency to think about, and themselves. Both left and
right green , or rather centre and centre and up the tree. It is more of a
preliminary assessment of numbers, people like
mingling to prove they aren't a loneloon stuck out on limb on this
issue.
Due to western peoples apathy most of these events are pretty much trivial
feel good anyway. An excuse to get out-doors sit in the park and listen to
like minded people .
I doubt we will ever get the numbers we had for the protest against the 2nd
Iraq war, and even then the corrupt politicians didn't give a stuff what
people thought.

I think protest are going to have to change tactics to be more effective,
maybe the future is on-line organisation, and attacking the politicians via
e-mail campaigns etc.

Who knows?

http://imaginepeace.com/warisover/
unknown
2010-12-08 14:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vox
Post by unknown
There are a great many things worth worrying more over but people
tend to focus on small topics of the day and ignore the piles of
elephant shit all over the room.
Yes there are some serious stuff like,
*The Afghani vice president caught bringing in $52 Million CASH into UAE
*Most of the financing of terrorist are coming from the UAE, Americas ally and not
Tehran or North Korea.
* Bush admitted approving torture in his Autobiography.
* The Us administration leaned on the Spanish government not to pursue the killing of a
Spanish reporter at the start of the Iraq war, when they shelled the hotel where the
Press were staying.
*US's blind support for Israel's crimes against Palestinians
* The collateral murder video, where reuters journalist were gunned down.
.etc.
Someone got the short straw.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2010/12/152489.htm

Anyway, just to start off, the United States is pleased to announce that we'll host UNESCO's
World Press Freedom Day in 2011 from May 1 to May 3 here in Washington, D.C. UNESCO is the
only UN agency with a mandate to promote freedom of expression, and its corollary, freedom
of the press. The theme for this commemoration will be 21st Century Media: New Frontiers,
New Barriers. Obviously, we decided upon this before the latest round of news

[ New Frontiers, New Barriers ROFLPMAP the universe really can lay on some seriously
funny things even down in the mud with the shit and blood :-) ]
unknown
2010-12-08 14:52:59 UTC
Permalink
But if a fire alarm goes off at an international conference you can report who appeared to
be at unsheduled committee meetings in which rooms.

As the planners of multihundred million $ buildings see it , add a few twists and turns,
no long line of sight for cameras , people can claim they got lost , plausible
deniability, you get the contract.
After all, in the age of video conferences why are international conferences such a big
industry ?
Sfinx
2010-12-08 07:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
Assange has not stolen anything or concocted anything.
He has just profited from stolen data. As a good leftie he does have
neither the courage nor the ability to make a honest living by
producing values wanted by others. Consequently Assange is just a
worthless leftie parasite.
Vox
2010-12-08 11:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sfinx
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
Assange has not stolen anything or concocted anything.
He has just profited from stolen data.
Err ..WIkileaks is a non-profit organisation, get your facts right.
Post by Sfinx
As a good leftie he does have
neither the courage nor the ability to make a honest living by
producing values wanted by others.
Courage, his practically a walking target for what his done.
I think his safer in gaol than out.
Post by Sfinx
Consequently Assange is just a
worthless leftie parasite.
His activities have been *priceless* for many, he has forced governement to
account for thair activities.
jg
2010-12-08 12:11:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vox
Post by Sfinx
Post by Vox
Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies
Ben Hillier 04 December 2010
Assange has not stolen anything or concocted anything.
He has just profited from stolen data.
Err ..WIkileaks is a non-profit organisation, get your facts right.
What does Julian Sausage do for a living then?
Continue reading on narkive:
Search results for 'Wikileaks: truth is a crime in an empire of lies' (newsgroups and mailing lists)
21
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soc.culture.british
11
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alt.religion.end-times.prophecies
17
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Private Banking Made Simple - because patsy wasted American Soldiers will just refuse to defend American values - Torture is a crime against God and Humanity. - Bush closed 911 investigations according to the FBI.
started 2009-02-07 10:05:55 UTC
van.general
9
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Private Banking Made Simple - because patsy wasted American Soldiers will just refuse to defend American values - Torture is a crime against God and Humanity. - Bush closed 911 investigations according to the FBI.
started 2009-02-08 12:24:28 UTC
alt.politics.org.nsa
9
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which side are YOU on? - How come Alex Jones or George Norry doesn't support the arrest of Bush for mass murder? for closing Police investigations on 911? for torture? For stealing trillions? Why doesn't the NWOers invite someone who can explain why the Iraq war is a crime against our humanity AS CRITICAL?
started 2009-02-05 02:06:51 UTC
soc.culture.singapore
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