Discussion:
ALP's management of live cattle trade = another disaster
(too old to reply)
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-08 04:27:20 UTC
Permalink
"Anger over photos of Indonesian cattle cruelty"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-07/anger-over-indonesian-pictures-of-cattle-mistreatment/4455902

Gillard's knee-jerk reaction to the four-corner's expose nearly
destroyed the industry. After 7 months of talk, it dawned on Labor that
cattle don't vote:
"Labor rejects push to ban live exports"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-04/labor-rejects-push-to-ban-live-exports/3711554

Over a year later, it is apparent that the original problem hasn't been
solved:
"'Sadistic' footage may involve Australian cattle
...
'You have the pipe, the stick, the shocker and you put them in its ass',
one worker says. 'If a calf doesn't move, shove the electric probe in
his ass and he will move'.
...
*That* treatment was supposed to have ended following the outcry over a
Four Corners report last year.

[Comment: In 'only' 19 months? This is the ALP you're talking about!]

After that program aired, live exports to Indonesia were suspended and a
new export supply chain assurance scheme introduced to ensure better
animal welfare outcomes.
...
The only problem noted in the July audit was a rusty gate that caused
excessive noise.
...
A spokeswoman for the abattoir's owners said consultants from *Meat and
Livestock Australia* were arriving to retrain its staff".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-11/abused-cattle-may-be-australian/4422302

How do you retrain such people?

Maybe a dose of the cattle prod will teach them how it feels.

We have more than enough Rabbis and Sheikhs in the country - why not put
them to work blessing/cutting/whatever *here* where it can be properly
regulated.

All it takes is a little nouse - but the ALP has none.

Ludwig, Joe - qualifications? Unionist.
--
"Gillard strikes me as the sort of university feminist who screams
'chauvinist pig!' when you hold the door for her and 'woman-hater!' if
you just let it swing back in her face"
http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2012/10/why-i-dont-care-about-the-gillard-abbott-sexism-war-and-neither-should-you.html

Julie Bishop:
"It is a vile slur. She should apologise to the women in Tony Abbott's
life and she should withdraw it"

Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back. But that just proves why I'm not suited to the
Labor Party, because I'm too rational"

Gillard - one week before abandoning the faux surplus...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, we deal with the forecasts, and I refer you to what we said in
that mid-year [budget] statement"

Swan - one week later...abandoning the surplus...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"
(rotfl - that they can't balance a budget?)

Abbott...
"If the Labor Party thinks there's been some terrible injustice done to
Mr Slipper,
they should put him back into the Speaker's chair"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?


Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
The Cassocked Crusader
2013-01-08 05:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Considering that the food security of the Indonesians was
threatened I'm amazed that they took it so calmly, well apart
from making sure that every refugee got a ticket on the next
old fishing boat to Christmas Island. I'd say the profit to the
Indonesians is running about $25000 for every head of cattle
they did not get and we got the dregs of their refugee camps
instead. More than one way to show your displeasure at a
stupid Australian govt decision.

Someone in the Labor Party should go and actually work on
a cattle station loading cattle onto road trains, then see the
difference between here and Indonesia. Mind you Labor Party
and "work" are not words that go together too well nowadays,
are there any parliamentary Labor Party members who have
come from blue collar backgrounds or are they all ex lawyers,
ex accountants, ex doctors, ex criminals?
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-08 05:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Cassocked Crusader
Considering that the food security of the Indonesians was
threatened I'm amazed that they took it so calmly, well apart
from making sure that every refugee got a ticket on the next
old fishing boat to Christmas Island. I'd say the profit to the
Indonesians is running about $25000 for every head of cattle
they did not get and we got the dregs of their refugee camps
instead. More than one way to show your displeasure at a
stupid Australian govt decision.
Someone in the Labor Party should go and actually work on
a cattle station loading cattle onto road trains, then see the
difference between here and Indonesia. Mind you Labor Party
and "work" are not words that go together too well nowadays,
As you say...

"Mr Nasser cited four factors making life difficult for miners in
Australia: increased costs, increased taxes and royalties from state and
federal governments, continuing global volatility and ''a much more
difficult *industrial relations* environment''.

''In recent years, it's hard not to feel as if our industrial relations
system has been like a pendulum swinging from one approach to another,''
he said.

He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Mr Nasser cited *3200 incidents* of industrial action in BHP's
Queensland coal mines in the past year and *1000 notices* of intention
to take action of which 500 were withdrawn with less than 24 hours notice".
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/shorten-returns-fire-after-bhp-chiefs-attack-20120517-1ytoi.html
Post by The Cassocked Crusader
are there any parliamentary Labor Party members who have
come from blue collar backgrounds or are they all ex lawyers,
ex accountants, ex doctors, ex criminals?
No accountants or doctors that I am aware of. All lawyers and/or
unionists except for one band leader.

Why did you prefix criminals with 'ex'?
--
"Gillard strikes me as the sort of university feminist who screams
'chauvinist pig!' when you hold the door for her and 'woman-hater!' if
you just let it swing back in her face"
http://www.menzieshouse.com.au/2012/10/why-i-dont-care-about-the-gillard-abbott-sexism-war-and-neither-should-you.html

Julie Bishop:
"It is a vile slur. She should apologise to the women in Tony Abbott's
life and she should withdraw it"

Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back. But that just proves why I'm not suited to the
Labor Party, because I'm too rational"

Gillard - one week before abandoning the faux surplus...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, we deal with the forecasts, and I refer you to what we said in
that mid-year [budget] statement"

Swan - one week later...abandoning the surplus...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"
(rotfl - that they can't balance a budget?)

Abbott...
"If the Labor Party thinks there's been some terrible injustice done to
Mr Slipper,
they should put him back into the Speaker's chair"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-10 13:26:23 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:23:52 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Yet Whyalla is still there!
ROTFLOL!

DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-10 19:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:23:52 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Yet Whyalla is still there!
ROTFLOL!
How long can we sustain taxpayer-funded bailouts for industries such as
OneSteel?

"THE state's two key industrial cities will be 'wiped off the map' by a
carbon tax, a major union warns.

The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the
Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said.

The internal revolt from Labor's industrial heartland threatens not just
the reform but the Government's survival".

Duh. That must be why they gave OneSteel a $65m rescure package.

WHAT WILL THEY DO NEXT YEAR, GIVE THEM ANOTHER $65M????


"Mr Hanson yesterday stepped up his union's opposition to the tax,
claiming the future of both cities would be in serious doubt because
both had economies based on the *high-emission* production of steel,
iron ore and zinc.

'Goodbye. They will be off the map', he said".

He was right. Without being propped up by the Federal ALP liars they
would be.


"With Whyalla's main employer, OneSteel, and fellow steelmaker BlueScope
in Canberra today for talks with the Federal Government over the
proposed tax, the fact that such an important union has broken ranks and
is openly campaigning against the Government is highly significant".

...

"Adding to Ms Gillard's woes, food manufacturers are now also seeking
special treatment".

ARE YOU STARTING TO GET THE IDEA?

"The Government now faces a wall of opponents as groups across the
political spectrum from employers and industry bodies, to unions and the
welfare sector, seek exemptions or *more compensation*".


"However, the state Labor MP for Giles, Lyn Breuer, said the Federal
Government understood what was at stake.

'Why would the Federal Government send an industry broke, put in
jeopardy the jobs of thousands of workers, particularly in my area in
Whyalla? ... I'm confident that we'll be able to make some sort of
arrangement that will satisfy everyone', she said before acknowledging:
'without the steel making operations at OneSteel, the town (Whyalla)
would not have a future'".

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/carbon-tax-will-destroy-major-centres-such-as-port-pirie-and-whyalla/story-e6frea6u-1226041230581

LABOR = ECONOMIC FUCKWITS
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 01:00:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:41:53 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:23:52 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Yet Whyalla is still there!
ROTFLOL!
How long can we sustain taxpayer-funded bailouts for industries such as
OneSteel?
As long as we can keep taxing thier mining operations.
Probably about as long as we vote for politicians who aren't in their
pockets.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"THE state's two key industrial cities will be 'wiped off the map' by a
carbon tax, a major union warns.
Come on now, are you still backing that stupid claim Abbott made?
Whyalla is still there!
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the
Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said.
Hmm, so Hanson is as big an idiot as Abbott? Whoda thunkit?
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The internal revolt from Labor's industrial heartland threatens not just
the reform but the Government's survival".
I wonder if Hanson has noticed Whyalla is still there?
Nothing like a but of FUD to get elected. Or re-elected.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Duh. That must be why they gave OneSteel a $65m rescure package.
Could be. Steel is a strategic industry. Its in the national interest
to prevent multinational companies moving it to China. Or does Abbott
suggest we lower working conditions to match those in China to make
his multinational mates more money?
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
WHAT WILL THEY DO NEXT YEAR, GIVE THEM ANOTHER $65M????
Possibly, but that would only be needed if conditions changed for the
worse. Abbott might find himself doing just that, or he may just say
"fuck the workers, we are going to compete with China on their own
terms".
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Mr Hanson yesterday stepped up his union's opposition to the tax,
claiming the future of both cities would be in serious doubt because
both had economies based on the *high-emission* production of steel,
iron ore and zinc.
'Goodbye. They will be off the map', he said".
He was right. Without being propped up by the Federal ALP liars they
would be.
They have ALWAYS been propped up by government. Its a strategic
industry. Menzies solution was to limit imports, driving up the
domestic price of steel and diverting human and financial resources
into developing the industry. Of course that led to rather a lot of
pain for businesses that needed steel but what the hell.

If you are going to oppose a carbon tax, just oppose it. Don't whine
about job losses you don't really give a toss about. Especially those
that never happened when the tax was introduced.

You and Abbott are looking complete geese on this issue and bringing
in another goose from the trade union movement doesn't make your
position any less ludicrous.






DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-11 01:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:41:53 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:23:52 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Yet Whyalla is still there!
ROTFLOL!
How long can we sustain taxpayer-funded bailouts for industries such as
OneSteel?
As long as we can keep taxing thier mining operations.
Probably about as long as we vote for politicians who aren't in their
pockets.
So you're saying Gillard and Swan are in OneSteel's pockets?

That's a little slanderous don't you think?
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"THE state's two key industrial cities will be 'wiped off the map' by a
carbon tax, a major union warns.
Come on now, are you still backing that stupid claim Abbott made?
Whyalla is still there!
If it weren't for the $65m bailout, it wouldn't be there - so Hanson was
correct.

And in fact, Gillard wouldn't be there either - Hanson and Howes would
have chucked her out.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the
Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said.
Hmm, so Hanson is as big an idiot as Abbott? Whoda thunkit?
$65m says Hanson was right.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The internal revolt from Labor's industrial heartland threatens not just
the reform but the Government's survival".
I wonder if Hanson has noticed Whyalla is still there?
Nothing like a but of FUD to get elected. Or re-elected.
Thanks to the $65m bailout.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Duh. That must be why they gave OneSteel a $65m rescure package.
Could be. Steel is a strategic industry. Its in the national interest
to prevent multinational companies moving it to China. Or does Abbott
suggest we lower working conditions to match those in China to make
his multinational mates more money?
Hey, 'in the national interest' the ALP should bail us all out!

PS: It grows on trees.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
WHAT WILL THEY DO NEXT YEAR, GIVE THEM ANOTHER $65M????
Possibly, but that would only be needed if conditions changed for the
worse. Abbott might find himself doing just that, or he may just say
"fuck the workers, we are going to compete with China on their own
terms".
So if conditions stay the same, they won't need another bailout?
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Mr Hanson yesterday stepped up his union's opposition to the tax,
claiming the future of both cities would be in serious doubt because
both had economies based on the *high-emission* production of steel,
iron ore and zinc.
'Goodbye. They will be off the map', he said".
He was right. Without being propped up by the Federal ALP liars they
would be.
They have ALWAYS been propped up by government. Its a strategic
industry. Menzies solution was to limit imports, driving up the
domestic price of steel and diverting human and financial resources
into developing the industry. Of course that led to rather a lot of
pain for businesses that needed steel but what the hell.
Yes, we're all strategic - like I said, we all need a bailout.
Post by David Moss
If you are going to oppose a carbon tax, just oppose it. Don't whine
about job losses you don't really give a toss about. Especially those
that never happened when the tax was introduced.
You and Abbott are looking complete geese on this issue and bringing
in another goose from the trade union movement doesn't make your
position any less ludicrous.
ABBOTT WAS QUOTING THE UNIONIST YOU GOOSE.
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 03:26:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:24:23 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:41:53 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:23:52 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
He said that BHP had options to invest overseas if necessary.
Yet Whyalla is still there!
ROTFLOL!
How long can we sustain taxpayer-funded bailouts for industries such as
OneSteel?
As long as we can keep taxing thier mining operations.
Probably about as long as we vote for politicians who aren't in their
pockets.
So you're saying Gillard and Swan are in OneSteel's pockets?
That's a little slanderous don't you think?
It would be if my comments werwe not made as part of the political
process and in (IMO) the national interest. I consider the risk they
will sue me for defamation acceptable.

As for Gilalrd being in the pocket of multinational miners, you might
cast your mind back to how she ascended to the leadership.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"THE state's two key industrial cities will be 'wiped off the map' by a
carbon tax, a major union warns.
Come on now, are you still backing that stupid claim Abbott made?
Whyalla is still there!
If it weren't for the $65m bailout, it wouldn't be there - so Hanson was
correct.
Onesteel had revenue of more than $6 billion last year.
I'll leave it to you to consider how a $65 million "bailout" might
affect their operations one way or another.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
And in fact, Gillard wouldn't be there either - Hanson and Howes would
have chucked her out.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The tax would strip thousands of jobs from Whyalla and Port Pirie, the
Australian Workers Union state secretary Wayne Hanson said.
Hmm, so Hanson is as big an idiot as Abbott? Whoda thunkit?
$65m says Hanson was right.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
The internal revolt from Labor's industrial heartland threatens not just
the reform but the Government's survival".
I wonder if Hanson has noticed Whyalla is still there?
Nothing like a but of FUD to get elected. Or re-elected.
Thanks to the $65m bailout.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Duh. That must be why they gave OneSteel a $65m rescure package.
Could be. Steel is a strategic industry. Its in the national interest
to prevent multinational companies moving it to China. Or does Abbott
suggest we lower working conditions to match those in China to make
his multinational mates more money?
Hey, 'in the national interest' the ALP should bail us all out!
PS: It grows on trees.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
WHAT WILL THEY DO NEXT YEAR, GIVE THEM ANOTHER $65M????
Possibly, but that would only be needed if conditions changed for the
worse. Abbott might find himself doing just that, or he may just say
"fuck the workers, we are going to compete with China on their own
terms".
So if conditions stay the same, they won't need another bailout?
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Mr Hanson yesterday stepped up his union's opposition to the tax,
claiming the future of both cities would be in serious doubt because
both had economies based on the *high-emission* production of steel,
iron ore and zinc.
'Goodbye. They will be off the map', he said".
He was right. Without being propped up by the Federal ALP liars they
would be.
They have ALWAYS been propped up by government. Its a strategic
industry. Menzies solution was to limit imports, driving up the
domestic price of steel and diverting human and financial resources
into developing the industry. Of course that led to rather a lot of
pain for businesses that needed steel but what the hell.
Yes, we're all strategic - like I said, we all need a bailout.
Post by David Moss
If you are going to oppose a carbon tax, just oppose it. Don't whine
about job losses you don't really give a toss about. Especially those
that never happened when the tax was introduced.
You and Abbott are looking complete geese on this issue and bringing
in another goose from the trade union movement doesn't make your
position any less ludicrous.
ABBOTT WAS QUOTING THE UNIONIST YOU GOOSE.
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
David Moss
2013-01-10 13:21:52 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:27:20 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Anger over photos of Indonesian cattle cruelty"
Why is it, do you think, that video of people mistreating cattle in
Indonesia finds its way into the Australian press?

Here is one reason:

"The Indonesian Government has issued the import quota for cattle for
the final six months of the year, halving its total imports compared
to last year, and has slapped a new retrospective tarrif on imports.
The permit is for 98,000 cattle from Australia to go into Indonesian
feedlots.
Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef led it to reduce
annual imports to just 283,000 cattle."

Hmm, lets look at the important bit again:
"Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef"

Isn't it interesting how politics works?


DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-10 19:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:27:20 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Anger over photos of Indonesian cattle cruelty"
Why is it, do you think, that video of people mistreating cattle in
Indonesia finds its way into the Australian press?
"The Indonesian Government has issued the import quota for cattle for
the final six months of the year, halving its total imports compared
to last year, and has slapped a new retrospective tarrif on imports.
The permit is for 98,000 cattle from Australia to go into Indonesian
feedlots.
Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef led it to reduce
annual imports to just 283,000 cattle."
"Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef"
Isn't it interesting how politics works?
No, just smarter operators than the ALP.

We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.

Anyone with a brain would tell you that the last thing you do is give
away your IP.
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 01:20:27 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:49:45 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
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Subject: Re: ALP's management of live cattle trade = another disaster
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Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:27:20 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Anger over photos of Indonesian cattle cruelty"
Why is it, do you think, that video of people mistreating cattle in
Indonesia finds its way into the Australian press?
"The Indonesian Government has issued the import quota for cattle for
the final six months of the year, halving its total imports compared
to last year, and has slapped a new retrospective tarrif on imports.
The permit is for 98,000 cattle from Australia to go into Indonesian
feedlots.
Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef led it to reduce
annual imports to just 283,000 cattle."
"Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef"
Isn't it interesting how politics works?
No, just smarter operators than the ALP.
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.

If Ludwig doen't send them then some Liberal owning executive from
Manildra will probably do it to boost sales of DCS Syrup.
Anyone with a brain would tell you that the last thing you do is give
away your IP.
Or try to stop an extremely populous near neighbor from building a
strategically important industry?

Of course someone with more than half a brain would look at the
greater strategic picture and realize Indonesia already imports half
its grain requirements and Australia is its most important supplier.

On a strategic level it doesn't matter to us whether Indonesia imports
stock feed or live cattle.

Of course if you are an LNP voting cattle cocky doing the same old
thing daddy and granddaddy did, you might have to make a change or
two.

Welcome to the 21st century.

DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-11 01:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:49:45 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
...
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:27:20 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
"Anger over photos of Indonesian cattle cruelty"
Why is it, do you think, that video of people mistreating cattle in
Indonesia finds its way into the Australian press?
"The Indonesian Government has issued the import quota for cattle for
the final six months of the year, halving its total imports compared
to last year, and has slapped a new retrospective tarrif on imports.
The permit is for 98,000 cattle from Australia to go into Indonesian
feedlots.
Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef led it to reduce
annual imports to just 283,000 cattle."
"Indonesian's intention to be self-sufficient in beef"
Isn't it interesting how politics works?
No, just smarter operators than the ALP.
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!

So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?

Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?

Hey, when you've processed that, tell us why *if* it was 'free market'
forces, why von Ludwig claimed credit the the 'plan'?
Post by David Moss
If Ludwig doen't send them then some Liberal owning executive from
Manildra will probably do it to boost sales of DCS Syrup.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Anyone with a brain would tell you that the last thing you do is give
away your IP.
Or try to stop an extremely populous near neighbor from building a
strategically important industry?
Of course someone with more than half a brain would look at the
greater strategic picture and realize Indonesia already imports half
its grain requirements and Australia is its most important supplier.
On a strategic level it doesn't matter to us whether Indonesia imports
stock feed or live cattle.
Of course if you are an LNP voting cattle cocky doing the same old
thing daddy and granddaddy did, you might have to make a change or
two.
Welcome to the 21st century.
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 03:12:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
Of course its even more likely someone up there noticed how much value
cattle add to stockfeed just by standing around in a feedlot and
eating it. You get that in a market economy.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?
The really interesting thing about a market economy is how interelated
everything is. People make decisions not just based on the price of
the commodity on offer, but on their total satisfaction level.
Satisfaction level can be manipulated via the political process. Of
course such manipulation causes inefficiency and drives up prices, but
thats the way it happens.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Hey, when you've processed that, tell us why *if* it was 'free market'
forces, why von Ludwig claimed credit the the 'plan'?
Because he is a politician and thats what politicians do.
Claiming credit for something that was going to happen anyway is just
part of the marketing process for politicians.
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-11 04:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
Undoubtedly - with *this* supplier...
http://menzieshouse.typepad.com/.a/6a012876778d82970c014e89fc5625970d-500wi

65 years of reliable supply - and then along comes this ....
Loading Image...

...*idiot!* and halts exports without consultation, without discussion
and without thinking.
Post by David Moss
Of course its even more likely someone up there noticed how much value
cattle add to stockfeed just by standing around in a feedlot and
eating it. You get that in a market economy.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?
The really interesting thing about a market economy is how interelated
everything is. People make decisions not just based on the price of
the commodity on offer, but on their total satisfaction level.
Satisfaction level can be manipulated via the political process. Of
course such manipulation causes inefficiency and drives up prices, but
thats the way it happens.
A classic case of disastrous buggermint interference and you talk about
the market.

Are you serious?
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Hey, when you've processed that, tell us why *if* it was 'free market'
forces, why von Ludwig claimed credit the the 'plan'?
Because he is a politician and thats what politicians do.
Claiming credit for something that was going to happen anyway is just
part of the marketing process for politicians.
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 06:15:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:29 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
<cut propaganda photoshop shots>
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
...*idiot!* and halts exports without consultation, without discussion
and without thinking.
As I recall there was massive public outcry over the way animals were
treated in Indonesia. Stopping the trade until those issues had been
addressed was an act of leadership Tony Abbott didn't see as
necessary. Cruelty is OK by him as long as the money keeps flowing.

As i said, people consider their total satisfaction level not just the
single item on the table. Consequently Tony can offer items of
individual value to the electorate but his total satisfaction level is
well below the level that has ever been seen in an opposition leader
who wins government.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Of course its even more likely someone up there noticed how much value
cattle add to stockfeed just by standing around in a feedlot and
eating it. You get that in a market economy.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?
The really interesting thing about a market economy is how interelated
everything is. People make decisions not just based on the price of
the commodity on offer, but on their total satisfaction level.
Satisfaction level can be manipulated via the political process. Of
course such manipulation causes inefficiency and drives up prices, but
thats the way it happens.
A classic case of disastrous buggermint interference and you talk about
the market.
Are you serious?
I'm always serious when I write about market economics.

You seem to have missed the part where I hinted the whole cattle
cruelty story was a market manipulation by Indonesia.

It didn't work on Tony because he can't understand why people would
get upset over a few mistreated Australian cattle. After all, he has
plans to mistreat Australian workers.

DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-11 06:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:29 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
<cut propaganda photoshop shots>
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
...*idiot!* and halts exports without consultation, without discussion
and without thinking.
As I recall there was massive public outcry over the way animals were
treated in Indonesia. Stopping the trade until those issues had been
addressed was an act of leadership Tony Abbott didn't see as
necessary. Cruelty is OK by him as long as the money keeps flowing.
She couldn't call the President first?
Post by David Moss
As i said, people consider their total satisfaction level not just the
single item on the table. Consequently Tony can offer items of
individual value to the electorate but his total satisfaction level is
well below the level that has ever been seen in an opposition leader
who wins government.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Of course its even more likely someone up there noticed how much value
cattle add to stockfeed just by standing around in a feedlot and
eating it. You get that in a market economy.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?
The really interesting thing about a market economy is how interelated
everything is. People make decisions not just based on the price of
the commodity on offer, but on their total satisfaction level.
Satisfaction level can be manipulated via the political process. Of
course such manipulation causes inefficiency and drives up prices, but
thats the way it happens.
A classic case of disastrous buggermint interference and you talk about
the market.
Are you serious?
I'm always serious when I write about market economics.
We have here overwhelming government intervention from both sides
actually *halting* the trade from our side, and you post:

"Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works ..."

End of discussion - you're an idiot.
Post by David Moss
You seem to have missed the part where I hinted the whole cattle
cruelty story was a market manipulation by Indonesia.
It didn't work on Tony because he can't understand why people would
get upset over a few mistreated Australian cattle. After all, he has
plans to mistreat Australian workers.
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-11 08:22:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:22:10 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:29 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
<cut propaganda photoshop shots>
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
...*idiot!* and halts exports without consultation, without discussion
and without thinking.
As I recall there was massive public outcry over the way animals were
treated in Indonesia. Stopping the trade until those issues had been
addressed was an act of leadership Tony Abbott didn't see as
necessary. Cruelty is OK by him as long as the money keeps flowing.
She couldn't call the President first?
She could, but the leader of a sovereign nation doesn't run policy by
the President of another to make sure its OK. Unless its John Howard
and George Bush.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
As i said, people consider their total satisfaction level not just the
single item on the table. Consequently Tony can offer items of
individual value to the electorate but his total satisfaction level is
well below the level that has ever been seen in an opposition leader
who wins government.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Of course its even more likely someone up there noticed how much value
cattle add to stockfeed just by standing around in a feedlot and
eating it. You get that in a market economy.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Which 'free market' entity shut the gate?
The really interesting thing about a market economy is how interelated
everything is. People make decisions not just based on the price of
the commodity on offer, but on their total satisfaction level.
Satisfaction level can be manipulated via the political process. Of
course such manipulation causes inefficiency and drives up prices, but
thats the way it happens.
A classic case of disastrous buggermint interference and you talk about
the market.
Are you serious?
I'm always serious when I write about market economics.
We have here overwhelming government intervention from both sides
"Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works ..."
End of discussion - you're an idiot.
I'm sorry, I thought you might be smart enough to discuss the bigger
picture and the geopolitical influences on the market. Clearly I was
wrong.








DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-11 21:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:22:10 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:29 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:29:39 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
We have Joe Ludwig (qualifications: son of a unionist), offering a plan
to ship more breeding heifers which will *help* them to become self
sufficient.
Thats the way a free market based capitalist society works my son.
Demand finds supply, supply finds demand.
No kidding!
So how did the *demand* for breeding heifers originate?
Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously.
<cut propaganda photoshop shots>
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
...*idiot!* and halts exports without consultation, without discussion
and without thinking.
As I recall there was massive public outcry over the way animals were
treated in Indonesia. Stopping the trade until those issues had been
addressed was an act of leadership Tony Abbott didn't see as
necessary. Cruelty is OK by him as long as the money keeps flowing.
She couldn't call the President first?
She could, but the leader of a sovereign nation doesn't run policy by
the President of another to make sure its OK. Unless its John Howard
and George Bush.
A true *leader* doesn't ban trade of a food source to a neighbouring
country without discussing it first.

Duh!
"Someone in Indonesia probably started taking food security seriously"
Duh!


Let's face it, Gillard is an inept uncommunicative *disaster*.
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-12 04:42:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:22:00 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A true *leader* doesn't ban trade of a food source to a neighbouring
country without discussing it first.
lead·er
/'led?r/
Noun
The person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.
A person followed by others.

I don't see anything in there about a leader having to ask someone
else's permission before acting. If they did they would not be the
leader, the person giving permission would be.

A true leader is decisive in an emergency. I can see you have little
experience dealing with emergencies and therefore have trouble
understanding this component of leadership.


DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-12 08:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:22:00 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A true *leader* doesn't ban trade of a food source to a neighbouring
country without discussing it first.
lead·er
/'led?r/
Noun
The person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.
A person followed by others.
Oh dear, off to consult the dictionary again, are you?

Stay away from the Macquarie these days - is my advice - as they seem to
be dumbing down 'Prime Ministerial' language.

No-one is following where Gillard is going...
Loading Image...

..except perhaps about 26% of die-hard leftist/socialists.
Post by David Moss
I don't see anything in there about a leader having to ask someone
else's permission before acting. If they did they would not be the
leader, the person giving permission would be.
ROTFL. I could write a book on the subject - a true leader meets
people's needs. In fact, a real leader doesn't even have an agenda
except one canvassed from customers, team and/or stakeholders. A true
leader builds consensus.

I guess you're following the Josef Stalin school of leadership.

Socialists don't have much time for individuals' opinions.
Post by David Moss
A true leader is decisive in an emergency. I can see you have little
experience dealing with emergencies and therefore have trouble
understanding this component of leadership.
Oh I see. So what *exactly* was the emergency?

Jeez you are a twit!
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-12 12:12:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:07:08 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
ROTFL. I could write a book on the subject - a true leader meets
people's needs. In fact, a real leader doesn't even have an agenda
except one canvassed from customers, team and/or stakeholders. A true
leader builds consensus.
I think you are confusing a leader with a facilitator.

A real leader determines an objective and influences others to achieve
it.


DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-12 19:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:07:08 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
ROTFL. I could write a book on the subject - a true leader meets
people's needs. In fact, a real leader doesn't even have an agenda
except one canvassed from customers, team and/or stakeholders. A true
leader builds consensus.
I think you are confusing a leader with a facilitator.
A real leader determines an objective and influences others to achieve
it.
I think that leadership is more complex than a one line definition
lifted from a dictionary. It is also simple - people will not be told
what to do - and especially Australians. A real leader convinces them
and builds consensus. A faux leader gets them over the line with stealth
and guile.

Loading Image...

Carbon tax anyone?
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
David Moss
2013-01-13 01:43:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 06:07:18 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:07:08 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
ROTFL. I could write a book on the subject - a true leader meets
people's needs. In fact, a real leader doesn't even have an agenda
except one canvassed from customers, team and/or stakeholders. A true
leader builds consensus.
I think you are confusing a leader with a facilitator.
A real leader determines an objective and influences others to achieve
it.
I think that leadership is more complex than a one line definition
lifted from a dictionary.
Could be why you have trouble with the concept.
Point out a flaw in my definition if you can.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
It is also simple - people will not be told
what to do - and especially Australians.
Actually most of them will. They might not vote for the person who
tells them bluntkly what to do at the next election, but they will
follow the order if it is given by a legitimate authority.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A real leader convinces them
and builds consensus.
Thats one way of influencing others to achieve a goal. There are many
others.
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A faux leader gets them over the line with stealth
and guile.
And an authoritarian leader just tells them what to do. That works
too.

According to the US Navy manual of leadership, "Of the six types of
power - reward, coercive, legitimate, informational, referent, and
expert - you may use one or more in various combinations. Each
situation will determine the one or ones you use"

In my experience consensus building is not scalable. You can use it
when you have the time to socialise with a small group of people you
want to influence but when the numbers exceed around 20 it rapidly
becomes unworkable. It works best in small group situations of around
5 people.

You can make it look like you have built consensus in a larger group,
but that is mainly a showcase exercise for public consumption. Below
the surface the uses of power described above deliver the outcome.










DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
ALP = Abusive Liars Party
2013-01-13 03:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 06:07:18 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by David Moss
On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:07:08 +1100, ALP = Abusive Liars Party
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
ROTFL. I could write a book on the subject - a true leader meets
people's needs. In fact, a real leader doesn't even have an agenda
except one canvassed from customers, team and/or stakeholders. A true
leader builds consensus.
I think you are confusing a leader with a facilitator.
A real leader determines an objective and influences others to achieve
it.
I think that leadership is more complex than a one line definition
lifted from a dictionary.
Could be why you have trouble with the concept.
Point out a flaw in my definition if you can.
Scroll up 2 lines and start reading immediately after "I think that".
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
It is also simple - people will not be told
what to do - and especially Australians.
Actually most of them will. They might not vote for the person who
tells them bluntkly what to do at the next election, but they will
follow the order if it is given by a legitimate authority.
Oh I get it, you still think you're in the army.

Most people *will* carry out orders but they will be annoyed at being
*told* what to do instead of consulted, thus consulting people is always
going to be more effective and productive.

I can see now why you support the ALP. Consultation is considered a
waste of time, e.g. Most Australians opposed a carbon tax.

In fact, many voted for Gillard anticipating exactly that "No carbon tax".

Yet we got it - she gave us a carbon tax *despite* promising the opposite.

Is that the action of a leader? To achieve an objective by stealth and
guile?
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A real leader convinces them
and builds consensus.
Thats one way of influencing others to achieve a goal. There are many
others.
Sure, you can adopt the Stalinist approach and threaten them with
Siberia - or the military equivalent DB. I can see why you support the ALP.
Post by David Moss
Post by ALP = Abusive Liars Party
A faux leader gets them over the line with stealth
and guile.
And an authoritarian leader just tells them what to do. That works
too.
Not effectively.

Trying to dictate to BMA how to run their rosters worked *really* well
eh - they shut down the company!
Post by David Moss
According to the US Navy manual of leadership, "Of the six types of
power - reward, coercive, legitimate, informational, referent, and
expert - you may use one or more in various combinations. Each
situation will determine the one or ones you use"
Oh spare me the militaristic bullshit (oops!). I have done leadership
courses in both the military and business and can tell you that military
'leadership' is at the autocratic (and ineffective) end of the spectrum.
Post by David Moss
In my experience consensus building is not scalable. You can use it
when you have the time to socialise with a small group of people you
want to influence but when the numbers exceed around 20 it rapidly
becomes unworkable. It works best in small group situations of around
5 people.
You can make it look like you have built consensus in a larger group,
but that is mainly a showcase exercise for public consumption. Below
the surface the uses of power described above deliver the outcome.
Complete & utter rubbish. Martin Luther King built consensus for
billions of people. It requires a principled, honest approach.

When you listen to the current ALP leadership, you just want to throw up.

What kind of 'leader' refers to the Leader of the Opposition as 'Jack
the Ripper'?

What kind of 'leader' stands on the public stage and declares Tony
Abbott's volunteering a 'stunt'?

What kind of leadership is it when a cabinet minister refers to the
leader of the opposition as a 'douchebag' and his deputy leader a 'bimbo'?

You support people who set a disgraceful example and who are not
qualified to lead a pack of monkeys - they are monkeys!
Post by David Moss
DM
personal opinion only
---------------------
APR - http://politics.admoss.info
--
Piers Akerman...
"It's not the Murray-Darling that is badly in need of a flush, it’s
Gillard's hyperbowl"

Malcolm Turnbull...
"It remains a matter of complete bafflement to me why the Labor Party
doesn't put Kevin back"

Gillard...
"We don't jump at people's figments of imagination – we deal with the
facts, ..."

Swan ...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

Tanner...
"When I joined the Labor Party people joined Labor to change the world.
Now they join Labor to run the world".

How much new law is there every year?
http://youtu.be/lePrBUHihKI

Gillard - who do you believe?
"The Prime Minister of Australia ...?"
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