Discussion:
Iranians consider mandatory execution for apostasy
(too old to reply)
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-10 20:42:00 UTC
Permalink
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require the death
penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or someone who
promotes such a conversion even on the Internet, according to a new report
from Compass Direct News.
Those discussions of a penal code that was drafted earlier this year bring
urgency to situations such as the two men arrested recently and under
interrogation for that very crime, the report said.
The report said Iranian authorities arrested a number of converts to
Christianity in the city of Shiraz about two months ago on suspicion of
"apostasy."
Arash Bandari, 44, and Mahmood Matin, 52, were arrested at the time along
with 13 other Muslim converts to Christianity. But while the other 13 were
told they have a court case pending and then released, Bandari and Matin
have been held ever since.
The 13 who have been released have not been told of any specific charges,
but they report the nature of their questioning gives them reason to think
the allegations may include apostasy and political crimes.
The other two, Bandari and Matin, have been held almost incommunicado.
Matin's wife was able to see him for several minutes on June 24, when the
prisoner told his wife "there had been a misunderstanding and that he
could not teach Christianity any more," Compass reported.
"They are pushing me to tell them that I am connected to a church outside
[Iran] and that I am receiving a salary, but I told them that I am doing
it on my own," he said, according to a Compass source whose identity was
concealed.
Compass noted that under the existing sharia laws in Iran, the death
penalty is available for the crime of apostasy, but not required.
The proposal, however, would change that.
"If passed, the penal code drafted last January would require execution of
any Muslim who converts to Christianity," Compass said. Such punishments
could not be "changed, reduced or annulled."
"Many believe that the government intends to use the proposed penal code
to clamp down on the surge in conversions in Iran over the last few years.
Commentators have called the surge a 'mass exodus' from Islam, which in
its Iranian Shiite version imposes harsh limitations on lifestyle and
personal freedoms," Compass reported.
Iran's Members of Parliament voted only a week ago to discuss the plan as
a priority, according to Agence France-Press, which described the proposal
as to "toughen punishment for harming mental security in society."
Alarmingly, the report also documented that the death penalty would be
imposed for "establishing weblogs and sites promotion corruption,
prostitution and apostasy."
"Over the last few years, the Internet and media such as television have
been conduits of information on Christianity and are feared as sources of
'corruption' of the Iranian people," Compass reported. "The Internet is
widely used in Iran despite restricted access for thousands of websites
with 'immoral' content or content - including Christian ones - deemed as
insulting religion and promoting political dissent."
Executions in Iran totaled 317 in 2007, up from 177 in 2006, and human
rights groups say such punishments are excessive. Tehran insists death is
an "effective deterrent," according to AFP.
"Christians in particular have suffered persecution in Iran since the
Islamic revolution in 1979. No converts to Christianity have been
convicted of 'apostasy' since international pressure forced officials to
drop the death sentence of Christian convert Mehdi Dibaj in 1994. But in
the years following the convert's release, Dibaj and four other Protestant
pastors, including converts and those working with converts, have been
brutally murdered," Compass said.
The attackers in those cases never have been brought to justice.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69158
I thought it already was mandatory? There must be some sort of legal penalty
associated w/renouncing Islam. What is it currently?
David Moss
2008-07-10 23:16:07 UTC
Permalink
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require the
death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or someone
who promotes such a conversion even on the Internet, according to a
new report from Compass Direct News.
Is the law being discussed specifically about Christianity, or was that bit
just thrown in for propaganda purposes? I doubt the Iranians consider
abandoning Islam for Christianity any worse than turning to Satanism.

"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for their
faith."

BTW Sharia law gives apostates 3 days in which to express regret for
leaving Islam. If they do not express regret within 3 days, sentence is
carried out. Modern courts generally take the view that if someone does not
act within 3 days to save their own life, they can be declared mentally
incompetent and therefore excused of irrational acts such as conversion to
another religion.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-10 23:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require the
death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or someone
who promotes such a conversion even on the Internet, according to a
new report from Compass Direct News.
Is the law being discussed specifically about Christianity, or was that bit
just thrown in for propaganda purposes? I doubt the Iranians consider
abandoning Islam for Christianity any worse than turning to Satanism.
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for their
faith."
BTW Sharia law gives apostates 3 days in which to express regret for
leaving Islam. If they do not express regret within 3 days, sentence is
carried out. Modern courts generally take the view that if someone does not
act within 3 days to save their own life, they can be declared mentally
incompetent and therefore excused of irrational acts such as conversion to
another religion.
How enlightened! Civlized laws such as the above sound like something
that should be initiated in AUS!
Post by David Moss
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
David Moss
2008-07-11 00:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require
the death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or
someone who promotes such a conversion even on the Internet,
according to a new report from Compass Direct News.
Is the law being discussed specifically about Christianity, or was that bit
just thrown in for propaganda purposes? I doubt the Iranians consider
abandoning Islam for Christianity any worse than turning to Satanism.
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith."
BTW Sharia law gives apostates 3 days in which to express regret for
leaving Islam. If they do not express regret within 3 days, sentence
is carried out. Modern courts generally take the view that if
someone
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
does not
act within 3 days to save their own life, they can be declared
mentally incompetent and therefore excused of irrational acts such as
conversion to another religion.
How enlightened! Civlized laws such as the above sound like something
that should be initiated in AUS!
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.

Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we have
different countries.

Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?

BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
hysterical about Iran, take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-11 04:21:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require
the death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or
someone who promotes such a conversion even on the Internet,
according to a new report from Compass Direct News.
Is the law being discussed specifically about Christianity, or was that bit
just thrown in for propaganda purposes? I doubt the Iranians consider
abandoning Islam for Christianity any worse than turning to Satanism.
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith."
BTW Sharia law gives apostates 3 days in which to express regret for
leaving Islam. If they do not express regret within 3 days, sentence
is carried out. Modern courts generally take the view that if
someone
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
does not
act within 3 days to save their own life, they can be declared
mentally incompetent and therefore excused of irrational acts such as
conversion to another religion.
How enlightened! Civlized laws such as the above sound like something
that should be initiated in AUS!
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.
I agree w/that.
Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we have
different countries.
I don't suppose there are any muslims who would want to bring sharia
law to AUS or the US though are there?
Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
From what I've seen the US doesn't import any oil from Iranistan, so I
really couldn't care less what they do.

The hysteria might have more to do w/the fact that Ahmenijihad repeatedly
has called for the destruction of Israel (i.e. "Israel to be erased from the
pages of history"). But Islamic genocides of infidels is something you
support, so I suppose you wouldn't understand anyway.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
fasgnadh
2008-07-11 06:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.
I agree w/that.
So do the vast majority of the worlds Muslims.

I'm sure you can finds a number of exceptions which
prove the rule.
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we have
different countries.
I don't suppose there are any muslims who would want to bring sharia
law to AUS or the US though are there?
Not the majority of Australian Muslims, but I'm sure you can
find a few and support their cause, to support your own!
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
From what I've seen the US doesn't import any oil from Iranistan, so I
really couldn't care less what they do.
You really are a cretin.

If ANY supply is disrupted, ALL prices will skyrocket.

They already have, just on the THREAT by Zionazis to attack!

And the way world trade is shifting, only those
countries who use oil to fabricate manufactures which they
sell to the world, will be able to afford to buy it.

Sooner, if the Zionazi sabre rattling turns into military
acts of war against Iran.
Post by üDoug±Ç
The hysteria might have more to do w/the fact that
Ahmenijihad repeatedly has called for the destruction
of Israel (i.e. "Israel to be erased from the
pages of history").
The old misquotation. You have no citation because
it's a misrepresentation of a quote from an Iranian
cleric..and NOT A THREAT! B^D

# "Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's
# phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be
# wiped off the map" an English idiom which means to
# "obliterate totally", and "destroy completely"
#
# But is that what Mr. Ahmadinejad said? And if so, was
# it a threat of war? For months, a debate among Iran
# specialists over both questions has been intensifying.
# It starts as a dispute over translating Persian but
# quickly turns on whether the United States (with help
# from Israel) is doing to Iran what some believe it did
# to Iraq - building a case for military action predicated
# on a faulty premise.

# "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel
# off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian,"
# remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the
# University of Michigan and critic of American policy
# who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted.
# "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist
# state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran
# has not "attacked another country aggressively for over
# a century," he said "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."
#
# - New York Times June 11th 2006
#

Shades of WMD bullshit, eh? That is enough to suck in the
SHEEPLE like üDoug±Ç! B^p


# Juan Cole translates the Persian phrase (remember, it's a
# a QUOTE from long dead Imam, not a contemporary threat) as:
#
# "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem
# (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from]
# the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)"
#
# "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map'
# because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its
# regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would
# collapse."
# - Juan Cole

How true, any REGIME, occupying land captured by military
force should vanish.


# Iran itself has repeatedly rejected the allegations that
# Ahmadinejad has stated 'Israel must be wiped off the map'
#
# So we have Iranians, AND Western Farsi experts saying that the
# QUOTE refers to the collapse of the Zionist regime, not
# eradicating Jews or wiping out Israel.
#
# NEITHER 'JEWS' NOR 'ISRAEL', NOR 'MAP' ARE MENTIONED! B^D
#
# Of course the truth does not suit the USSA
# or Zionazis like üDoug±Ç. B^p
#
# ________________________
#
# "Iran denies wanting to "wipe Israel off the map"
#
# Reuters February 20, 2006
#
# BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Iran's foreign minister denied on Monday that
# Tehran wanted to see Israel "wiped off the map," saying President
# Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood.
#
# "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a
# misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned,"
# Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English,
# after addressing the European Parliament.
#
# "How is it possible to remove a country from the map?
# He is talking about the regime. We do not recognize
# legally this regime," he said"
#
# _______________________

# Golly, who to believe.. üDoug±Ç or Western Academics and Farsi
# speakers, who confirm what the Iranians themselves say! B^)

If you wish to read the original Farsi which doesn't
mention 'Israel', 'Map' or 'Wipe Out' - get a Bahai
to translate for you, they are fiercely persecuted in
Iran and won't gild the lily:

http://www.president.ir/fa/


Here is a pretty good translation of the whole speech, you
should read it. In context it is clear that the dead Imam
he quoted is saying; just as the Shah's regime looked invincible,
yet it has vanished from the pages of history.. just as
the Soviet regime looked indestructible, you cannot find
a trace of it, just as the Americans are powerful, we have
lived without them, .. and the regime in Qods will also vanish..

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP101305

Next time please quote Ahmadinejads WORDS, not the
lies and misrepresentations spread by morons like you.

Remember "They have WMD's which threaten us all" was all
it took for you cretins to start a BULLSHIT WAR LAST TIME!!!!


But here's representatives of the Israeli government
threatening specific, unprovoked military acts of war
against Iran.. with citation so you can check it was
really said;

# "In the most strident comments yet by an Israeli
# leader on the Iran issue, Deputy Prime Minister
# Shaul Mofaz, who is a former chief of staff and
# a former defense minister, said this month that
# Israel "will attack" if Iran did not suspend
# its nuclear program. "Attacking Iran, in order
# to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable,"
# he said in an interview. Both Israel and the US
# believe Iran is bent on developing nuclear weapons,
# but Tehran insists its nuclear program is civilian in nature.
#
# Political leaders in Israel were highly critical
# of Mofaz, who views himself as a potential successor
# to embattled Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. They accused
# him of exploiting a highly sensitive strategic problem
# facing Israel in a bid to paint himself as a tough
# leader. Israeli officials tried to play down the
# comments, reportedly telling their US colleagues
# that they did not reflect government policy.
#
# Since last December, when US intelligence agencies
# issued a National Intelligence Estimate asserting
# that in 2003 Iran halted work on nuclear weapons
# design, the prevailing view in Israel has been
# that US President George W Bush will not resort
# to force" - "Training to attack Iran"
# Asia Times 27/6/2008
# http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF27Ak05.html


That's a specific threat to commit an unprovoked act
of war "Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans,
will be unavoidable," When the U.S. admits Iran's
nuclear program is for peaceful generation of energy.
(and even if otherwise, Israel is a rogue state which
has nukes already! what hypocrisy! B^p )

It's not up to Zionazi killers to bomb Iran in order to
stop Iran's plans to develop peaceful nuclear power, and
hold onto it's oil till it is worth trillions more! 8^o

"Nothing in this treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the
inalienable right of all parties to the treaty to develop,
research. production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful
purposes without discrimination"
- Article IV Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty


Even the Zionazi government had to back down and disown
the loudmouth hawke who had revealed their intentions:

# Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:59:39 +1000
# Subject: ISRAEL condemns ZIONAZI threats against Iran!!!!!
# Zionazi tools, ralph and Peter Webb, disowned by ISRAEL!!!
# Re: Oil Price leaps 9% on mere THREAT of Zionazi attack on Iran!
# Message-ID: <484bad82$0$30462$***@news.optusnet.com.au>
#
# "Israel: Threats against Iran irresponsible"
# Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:25:04
#
# "Israeli officials have condemned deputy prime minister
# Shaul Mofaz's threats against Tehran, calling them
# 'irresponsible' and 'cynical'."
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!
#
# "Ignoring IAEA reports confirming Tehran's non-deviation
# from declared nuclear activities, the deputy prime minister
# threatened Iran on Friday with a military attack if it "continues
# its nuclear weapons program".



# Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:50:30 +1000
# Subject: "Israel to strike Iran between 4/11/2008 and 20/1/2009"
# - John Bolton, former Bush ambassador to the UN
# Message-ID: <486230fc$0$1026$***@news.optusnet.com.au>
#
#
# "US hawk predicts Israel strike on Iran
# - Washington 25/6/2008
#
# At least the Iranians get a warning about the next
# Zionazi war crime.
#
# "JOHN Bolton, the former American ambassador to the
# United Nations, has predicted that Israel could attack
# Iran after the US presidential election in November,
# but before George Bush's successor is sworn in."


# Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:04:10 +1000
# Subject: Zionazis Training to Attack Iran,
# just as Israeli minister threatened and John Bolton predicted.
# Re: "Israel to strike Iran between 4/11/2008 and 20/1/2009"
# - John Bolton, former Bush ambassador to the UN
# Message-ID: <4863a1da$0$30466$***@news.optusnet.com.au>
#
#
#
# "Training to attack Iran"
# - Asia Times 27/6/2008
# http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF27Ak05.html
#
# "JERUSALEM - Israeli defense experts were not
# surprised by a New York Times report over the
# weekend that the Israeli air force had recently
# conducted what appeared to be a rehearsal for
# an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.
#
# Israel, the experts say, has never taken the
# military option off the table and they therefore
# expect the air force to be training for a strike
# in Iran. "It is logical that the army is training
# for an Iranian mission," says Efraim Inbar, head
# of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies
# near Tel Aviv. "We are preparing for it. The air
# force is in charge of this file."
#
# Oil prices hiked 9% just on the threat of
# an act of war against Iran by a Zionazi minister.
#
# Imagine what price we will all pay at the petrol
# pump when the warmongers actually do it! 8^o
#
# "Over 100 Israeli F-16 and F-15 fighter jets, as
# well as helicopters and refueling tankers, took
# part in the exercise over the eastern Mediterranean
# and Greece in early June, according to the New York Times.
# Quoting unnamed US officials, the report said that the
# helicopters and tankers covered 1,400 kilometers,
# approximately the distance between Israel and Iran's
# uranium-enrichment plant at Natanz.
#


# And the US intelligence confirms that Iran stopped
# work on nuclear weapons in 2003:
#
# "Since last December, when US intelligence agencies
# issued a National Intelligence Estimate asserting
# that in 2003 Iran halted work on nuclear weapons design,
# the prevailing view in Israel has been that US President
# George W Bush will not resort to force in trying to
# stop Tehran from going nuclear."
#
# So why are the barking-mad Zionazi warmongers threatening war?
#
# It's the same old WMD threat bullshit that was the pretext for
# invading Iraq.
Post by üDoug±Ç
But Islamic genocides of infidels is something you
support, so I suppose you wouldn't understand anyway.
Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed by
you warmongers in Iraq, Muslims have not attacked Australia
and no Australians have been killed by any Muslim invaders.


What genocide? Why project your murderous Jihad onto others?
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
--
---------

One Planet - One People

There is only ONE 'race', the Human Race:



"THE GENOGRAPHIC PROJECT, A LANDMARK FIVE-YEAR STUDY
CONDUCTED BY IBM AND NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPLORES
THE ROOTS OF HUMANITY

In the space of just a few thousand generations,
the linguistic, cultural and genetic diversity
of the human race has exploded. Scientists agree
that all humans share a common ancestry in Africa.
Much less well understood is how the human race
migrated out of Africa and became so diverse."


www.ibm.com/dna


http://tinyurl.com/29qlqv


---------


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-----------
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 10:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Since Iran
# has not "attacked another country aggressively for over
# a century," he said "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."
So they wont attack any other country for the next century as well?
fasgnadh
2008-07-11 10:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
Post by fasgnadh
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.
I agree w/that.
So do the vast majority of the worlds Muslims.
I'm sure you can finds a number of exceptions which
prove the rule.
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we have
different countries.
I don't suppose there are any muslims who would want to bring sharia
law to AUS or the US though are there?
Not the majority of Australian Muslims, but I'm sure you can
find a few and support their cause, to support your own!
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
From what I've seen the US doesn't import any oil from Iranistan, so I
really couldn't care less what they do.
You really are a cretin.
If ANY supply is disrupted, ALL prices will skyrocket.
They already have, just on the THREAT by Zionazis to attack!
And the way world trade is shifting, only those
countries who use oil to fabricate manufactures which they
sell to the world, will be able to afford to buy it.
Sooner, if the Zionazi sabre rattling turns into military
acts of war against Iran.
Post by üDoug±Ç
The hysteria might have more to do w/the fact that
Ahmenijihad repeatedly has called for the destruction
of Israel (i.e. "Israel to be erased from the
pages of history").
The old misquotation. You have no citation because
it's a misrepresentation of a quote from an Iranian
cleric..and NOT A THREAT! B^D
# "Many news sources have presented one of Ahmadinejad's
# phrases in Persian as a statement that "Israel must be
# wiped off the map" an English idiom which means to
# "obliterate totally", and "destroy completely"
#
# But is that what Mr. Ahmadinejad said? And if so, was
# it a threat of war? For months, a debate among Iran
# specialists over both questions has been intensifying.
# It starts as a dispute over translating Persian but
# quickly turns on whether the United States (with help
# from Israel) is doing to Iran what some believe it did
# to Iraq - building a case for military action predicated
# on a faulty premise.
# "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel
# off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian,"
# remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the
# University of Michigan and critic of American policy
# who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted.
# "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist
# state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran
# has not "attacked another country aggressively for over
# a century," he said "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."
#
# - New York Times June 11th 2006
#
So they wont attack any other country for the next century as well?
Oh I will leave the tea-leaf reading to you nutjob psychics.

What is clear is that the Zionazis are preparing for war
against a country which isn't threatening them. 8^o

run along, lightweight.. this is for the adults to discuss.
Post by Polly the Parrot
Post by fasgnadh
Shades of WMD bullshit, eh? That is enough to suck in the
SHEEPLE like üDoug±Ç! B^p
# Juan Cole translates the Persian phrase (remember, it's a
#
# "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem
# (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from]
# the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)"
#
# "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map'
# because no such idiom exists in Persian" and "He did say he hoped its
# regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would
# collapse."
# - Juan Cole
How true, any REGIME, occupying land captured by military
force should vanish.
# Iran itself has repeatedly rejected the allegations that
# Ahmadinejad has stated 'Israel must be wiped off the map'
#
# So we have Iranians, AND Western Farsi experts saying that the
# QUOTE refers to the collapse of the Zionist regime, not
# eradicating Jews or wiping out Israel.
#
# NEITHER 'JEWS' NOR 'ISRAEL', NOR 'MAP' ARE MENTIONED! B^D
#
# Of course the truth does not suit the USSA
# or Zionazis like üDoug±Ç. B^p
#
# ________________________
#
# "Iran denies wanting to "wipe Israel off the map"
#
# Reuters February 20, 2006
#
# BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Iran's foreign minister denied on Monday that
# Tehran wanted to see Israel "wiped off the map," saying President
# Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood.
#
# "Nobody can remove a country from the map. This is a
# misunderstanding in Europe of what our president mentioned,"
# Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference, speaking in English,
# after addressing the European Parliament.
#
# "How is it possible to remove a country from the map?
# He is talking about the regime. We do not recognize
# legally this regime," he said"
#
# _______________________
# Golly, who to believe.. üDoug±Ç or Western Academics and Farsi
# speakers, who confirm what the Iranians themselves say! B^)
If you wish to read the original Farsi which doesn't
mention 'Israel', 'Map' or 'Wipe Out' - get a Bahai
to translate for you, they are fiercely persecuted in
http://www.president.ir/fa/
Here is a pretty good translation of the whole speech, you
should read it. In context it is clear that the dead Imam
he quoted is saying; just as the Shah's regime looked invincible,
yet it has vanished from the pages of history.. just as
the Soviet regime looked indestructible, you cannot find
a trace of it, just as the Americans are powerful, we have
lived without them, .. and the regime in Qods will also vanish..
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP101305
Next time please quote Ahmadinejads WORDS, not the
lies and misrepresentations spread by morons like you.
Remember "They have WMD's which threaten us all" was all
it took for you cretins to start a BULLSHIT WAR LAST TIME!!!!
But here's representatives of the Israeli government
threatening specific, unprovoked military acts of war
against Iran.. with citation so you can check it was
really said;
# "In the most strident comments yet by an Israeli
# leader on the Iran issue, Deputy Prime Minister
# Shaul Mofaz, who is a former chief of staff and
# a former defense minister, said this month that
# Israel "will attack" if Iran did not suspend
# its nuclear program. "Attacking Iran, in order
# to stop its nuclear plans, will be unavoidable,"
# he said in an interview. Both Israel and the US
# believe Iran is bent on developing nuclear weapons,
# but Tehran insists its nuclear program is civilian in nature.
#
# Political leaders in Israel were highly critical
# of Mofaz, who views himself as a potential successor
# to embattled Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. They accused
# him of exploiting a highly sensitive strategic problem
# facing Israel in a bid to paint himself as a tough
# leader. Israeli officials tried to play down the
# comments, reportedly telling their US colleagues
# that they did not reflect government policy.
#
# Since last December, when US intelligence agencies
# issued a National Intelligence Estimate asserting
# that in 2003 Iran halted work on nuclear weapons
# design, the prevailing view in Israel has been
# that US President George W Bush will not resort
# to force" - "Training to attack Iran"
# Asia Times 27/6/2008
# http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF27Ak05.html
That's a specific threat to commit an unprovoked act
of war "Attacking Iran, in order to stop its nuclear plans,
will be unavoidable," When the U.S. admits Iran's
nuclear program is for peaceful generation of energy.
(and even if otherwise, Israel is a rogue state which
has nukes already! what hypocrisy! B^p )
It's not up to Zionazi killers to bomb Iran in order to
stop Iran's plans to develop peaceful nuclear power, and
hold onto it's oil till it is worth trillions more! 8^o
"Nothing in this treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the
inalienable right of all parties to the treaty to develop,
research. production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful
purposes without discrimination"
- Article IV Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
Even the Zionazi government had to back down and disown
# Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:59:39 +1000
# Subject: ISRAEL condemns ZIONAZI threats against Iran!!!!!
# Zionazi tools, ralph and Peter Webb, disowned by ISRAEL!!!
# Re: Oil Price leaps 9% on mere THREAT of Zionazi attack on Iran!
#
# "Israel: Threats against Iran irresponsible"
# Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:25:04
#
# "Israeli officials have condemned deputy prime minister
# Shaul Mofaz's threats against Tehran, calling them
# 'irresponsible' and 'cynical'."
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!
#
# "Ignoring IAEA reports confirming Tehran's non-deviation
# from declared nuclear activities, the deputy prime minister
# threatened Iran on Friday with a military attack if it "continues
# its nuclear weapons program".
# Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:50:30 +1000
# Subject: "Israel to strike Iran between 4/11/2008 and 20/1/2009"
# - John Bolton, former Bush ambassador to the UN
#
#
# "US hawk predicts Israel strike on Iran
# - Washington 25/6/2008
#
# At least the Iranians get a warning about the next
# Zionazi war crime.
#
# "JOHN Bolton, the former American ambassador to the
# United Nations, has predicted that Israel could attack
# Iran after the US presidential election in November,
# but before George Bush's successor is sworn in."
# Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:04:10 +1000
# Subject: Zionazis Training to Attack Iran,
# just as Israeli minister threatened and John Bolton predicted.
# Re: "Israel to strike Iran between 4/11/2008 and 20/1/2009"
# - John Bolton, former Bush ambassador to the UN
#
#
#
# "Training to attack Iran"
# - Asia Times 27/6/2008
# http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF27Ak05.html
#
# "JERUSALEM - Israeli defense experts were not
# surprised by a New York Times report over the
# weekend that the Israeli air force had recently
# conducted what appeared to be a rehearsal for
# an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.
#
# Israel, the experts say, has never taken the
# military option off the table and they therefore
# expect the air force to be training for a strike
# in Iran. "It is logical that the army is training
# for an Iranian mission," says Efraim Inbar, head
# of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies
# near Tel Aviv. "We are preparing for it. The air
# force is in charge of this file."
#
# Oil prices hiked 9% just on the threat of
# an act of war against Iran by a Zionazi minister.
#
# Imagine what price we will all pay at the petrol
# pump when the warmongers actually do it! 8^o
#
# "Over 100 Israeli F-16 and F-15 fighter jets, as
# well as helicopters and refueling tankers, took
# part in the exercise over the eastern Mediterranean
# and Greece in early June, according to the New York Times.
# Quoting unnamed US officials, the report said that the
# helicopters and tankers covered 1,400 kilometers,
# approximately the distance between Israel and Iran's
# uranium-enrichment plant at Natanz.
#
# And the US intelligence confirms that Iran stopped
#
# "Since last December, when US intelligence agencies
# issued a National Intelligence Estimate asserting
# that in 2003 Iran halted work on nuclear weapons design,
# the prevailing view in Israel has been that US President
# George W Bush will not resort to force in trying to
# stop Tehran from going nuclear."
#
# So why are the barking-mad Zionazi warmongers threatening war?
#
# It's the same old WMD threat bullshit that was the pretext for
# invading Iraq.
Post by üDoug±Ç
But Islamic genocides of infidels is something you
support, so I suppose you wouldn't understand anyway.
Hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed by
you warmongers in Iraq, Muslims have not attacked Australia
and no Australians have been killed by any Muslim invaders.
What genocide? Why project your murderous Jihad onto others?
--
---------

One Planet - One People

There is only ONE 'race', the Human Race:



"THE GENOGRAPHIC PROJECT, A LANDMARK FIVE-YEAR STUDY
CONDUCTED BY IBM AND NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPLORES
THE ROOTS OF HUMANITY

In the space of just a few thousand generations,
the linguistic, cultural and genetic diversity
of the human race has exploded. Scientists agree
that all humans share a common ancestry in Africa.
Much less well understood is how the human race
migrated out of Africa and became so diverse."


www.ibm.com/dna


http://tinyurl.com/29qlqv


---------


The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/


-----------
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-11 18:15:42 UTC
Permalink
The right to remain silent.
Post by fasgnadh
-----------
Eli Grubman
2008-07-11 20:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?

Eli
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by fasgnadh
-----------
Panta Rhei
2008-07-11 23:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
Eli
Working steadily towards your first online orgasm today, dumb Grabmen? How
many of your demented posts will it still take you? LMAO!


And here you can see the same miserable retard again, right now posting as
Eli Grabmen, already fully retarded in 2002, posting almost the identical
garbage he keeps still posting today:

http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/tiscali-kook.html

ROTFLOL
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 23:17:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
Eli Grubman
2008-07-12 07:00:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:17:05 +1000, Polly the Parrot
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
Is it *ever* a bad thing?

Eli
Panta Rhei
2008-07-12 11:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
Post by Eli Grubman
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:17:05 +1000, Polly the Parrot
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
Is it *ever* a bad thing?
Eli
Working steadily towards your first miserable online orgasm today, dumb Pedo
Rev? <VBG>

Thanks for all the fun at your expense, you poor, miserable clown! LMAO!
--
Rev. Richard Skull about Eli Grabmen: Any sex act involving YOU is
bestiality.
Sir John Howard
2008-07-12 15:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
Eli Grubman
2008-07-12 15:53:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:10:47 -0700 (PDT), Sir John Howard
Post by Sir John Howard
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
They are probably gagging for something exactly like that.

Eli
Panta Rhei
2008-07-12 16:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Eli Grabmen, the notorious rabid anti-Semite, aka trolling Jewdas, aka dumb
Rever'nerd, aka stalking fake Susan, etc., etc. in Jewish newsgroups,
Post by Eli Grubman
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:10:47 -0700 (PDT), Sir John Howard
Post by Sir John Howard
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
They are probably gagging for something exactly like that.
Eli
I see, you are slowly working towards your second pathetic online orgasm,
today, dumb Pedo Rev. <G> Will take you still some more posts till you reach
your next pathetic little climax, little psychopathic idiot!

Buahahaaaaa...!!!
--
Rev. Richard Skull about Eli Grabmen: Any sex act involving YOU is
bestiality.
Moslem cartoon character mohammad was a child molester and goat fucker , the dirty bugger
2008-07-13 15:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir John Howard
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your
mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the
time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities
at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to
a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an
indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............
Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !!


Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
***@islamsa.org.za
***@mweb.co.za
***@lantic.co.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
***@sanha.org.za
***@googlegroups.com
***@gmail.com

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
--
moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child
molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks


_
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' /' ')
\ /
'\' _.7'
\ (
\ \

Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement brutality as a means of bringing people under subjection
2008-07-22 06:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir John Howard
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your
mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the
time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities
at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to
a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an
indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............
Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !!


Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
***@islamsa.org.za
***@mweb.co.za
***@lantic.co.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
***@sanha.org.za
***@googlegroups.com
***@gmail.com

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
--
moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child
molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks


_
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' /' ')
\ /
'\' _.7'
\ (
\ \

Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement brutality as a means of bringing people under subjection
2008-07-25 06:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Moslem cartoon character mohammed was a paedophile 6th century warlord
who cooked up a false religion in order to supplement brutality as a
Post by Moslem cartoon character mohammad was a child molester and goat fucker , the dirty bugger
Post by Sir John Howard
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
They also have the right to be gang raped by a pack of filthy
arselifters.
HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your
mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the
time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities
at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to
a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an
indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............
Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !!
Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
HOW TO BECOME A SHITSKIN MOSLEM - this is how: fuck goats, fuck your
mother (nikomak), molest children, wear a beekeepers outfit all the
time, never shower or bath, beat your wives, learn terrorist activities
at a maddrassa, wipe your ass with stones, sell the donkey you fucked to
a nearby village, marry a nine year-old , send your child off to an
indoctrination camp, practice thighing with little kids, ............
Practice all those and you too could become a prophet !!


Elif air ab tizak mohammad !!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
***@islamsa.org.za
***@mweb.co.za
***@lantic.co.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
sanha-***@sanha.org.za
***@sanha.org.za
***@googlegroups.com
***@gmail.com

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
--
moslem cartoon character mohammad and his bumchum allaah were child
molesting goat fuckers and nikomaks


_
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' /' ')
\ /
'\' _.7'
\ (
\ \

Up your ass mohammad - Elif air ab tizak!!!

***@muslimmatch.com or ***@muslimmatch.com or
***@googlegroups.com
TROLLS HUNTER
2008-07-27 16:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Beat anti-Islam trolls and imposters at their own game.

Despite barrage of malicious Spam forgeries posted by anti-Islam
trolls in desperate attempts to block Muslim messages from reaching
the readers

Muslims always victorious in spite of dirty tricks used by anti-Islam
trolls such as:

* [Forgery] Impersonating popular Muslims posters by using their name
such as stealing aliases, identity theft, pretending to be Muslim
poster.

* [Stealing articles] and post them under their aliases after changing
few words to something different

* [Fraud] Distorting the truth, giving a false misleading account of
Islam by twisted and disorderly manner, such as modifying Muslims
posts to make them looking different in what actually said.

* [Cancellation] Unauthorized and forged cancel messages, by such
tactics the troll believe they prevented the truth to reach the
readers!!

Despite all the above and other dirty tricks used by anti-Islam
trolls, still Muslim posters winning ALL debates.

Why? Because ALLAH on their side and they stand for noble cause,
justice peace and love without boundaries...

Ambassador Herman Ellis, in a testimony in front of the committee on
Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives of the United States
Congress on June 24th, 1985, said, "The Muslim community of the globe
today is in the neighborhood of one billion. That is an impressive
figure. But what to me is equally impressive is that Islam today is
the fastest growing monotheistic religion. This is something we have
to take into account. Something is right about Islam. It is attracting
a good many people."

Yes, something is right about Islam and that's why it has attracted so
many people throughout its 1400 years of history.

Get The Holy Quran. It is absolutely FREE

http://www.freequran.org/

Useful links

http://tinyurl.com/2482wo

http://www.muslim-answers.org/

www.islamonline.net

http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx

http://www.studying-islam.org/index.aspx
Michael Laudahn eOpposition
2008-07-27 16:56:10 UTC
Permalink
"TROLLS HUNTER" <***@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:96a704a4-3175-4df1-ac94-***@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...


Yes dear, thank you for opening my eyes. I almost fell for the machinations
of your opponnents. >.)


PS: Allah fuckbar!
--
Give us back our countries: Stop the criminal multiculturalism ideology
enforced upon the white world against the will of its peoples, leading to
mass immigration from the third-world: Mul-cul + pol-corr = lethal mixture
for the white world. And give us back our freedom: Dismantle all
surveillance technology.
B J Foster
2008-07-27 19:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Law professor Victoria Nourse has long been fascinated by a relatively
obscure case, Skinner v. Oklahoma, in which inmates from Oklahoma's
McAlester prison challenged that state's 1935 sterilization laws.
Twenty-seven other states had sterilization statutes aimed at those who
were imprisoned, insane, deaf, blind, or otherwise deemed unsound, and
thousands of Americans were involuntarily sterilized before the Supreme
Court ruled the Oklahoma law unconstitutional in 1942. "In Reckless
Hands: Skinner v. Oklahoma and the Near-Triumph of American Eugenics"
(Norton, $24.95) is Nourse's riveting account of American eugenics at
its height and of prison resistance that ended up in the Supreme Court.

Nourse, originally from Marblehead, spoke from her home in Wisconsin.

Q: Why did this case interest you?

A: It arrives in 1942, much earlier than it's thought the Supreme Court
was aggressively invoking human rights. That's what started me on this
search. When I looked up the original draft of the opinion and saw the
reference to Hitler, I wanted to find out why the court put limits on
Buck v. Bell, the 1927 case that confirmed a state's right to sterilize.

Q: The US was initially ahead of Nazi Germany in sterilization of its
citizens?

A: That's correct. Sterilization statutes were propounded in the early
part of the 20th century here and, although many state courts initially
struck them down, there was a new wave of laws after Buck v. Bell.
People may think that upon the announcement of Hitler's plan America
stopped sterilizing. But we were the leader until 1934-35.

Q: How did Nazi eugenics influence American eugenics?

A: The Nazi plan at first invigorated American enthusiasts. One eugenics
group in California, for example, took it as evidence that America
needed to go further in that area. But most Americans didn't know that
American sterilization laws existed. The statutes had been advanced by
interest groups, mainly doctors, asylum heads. As the Nazi regime became
more repressive, however, some experts in the US questioned the
scientific basis for eugenics. There was an important 1936 report by the
American Neurological Association that undercut its scientific
legitimacy. The Nazis responded by telling the US, "You do this too, you
were the eugenic leader and, by the way, you have lynching, racial
segregation." That accusation became anathema by the 1940s.

Q: How did the Depression force the issue of sterilization?

A: There was no money. One way that asylum directors could reduce their
populations was by sterilizing "safe" people and releasing them. By
1933-34 Oklahoma decided to enforce its sterilization laws. The governor
also declared that criminals would avoid his state if they knew they
could actually be sterilized as opposed to other states where the law
existed but was never applied
http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2008/07/27/a_warning_about_false_science/
TROLLS HUNTER
2008-07-31 15:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Beat anti-Islam trolls and imposters at their own game.

Despite barrage of malicious Spam forgeries posted by anti-Islam
trolls in desperate attempts to block Muslim messages from reaching
the readers

Muslims always victorious in spite of dirty tricks used by anti-Islam
trolls such as:

* [Forgery] Impersonating popular Muslims posters by using their name
such as stealing aliases, identity theft, pretending to be Muslim
poster.

* [Stealing articles] and post them under their aliases after changing
few words to something different

* [Fraud] Distorting the truth, giving a false misleading account of
Islam by twisted and disorderly manner, such as modifying Muslims
posts to make them looking different in what actually said.

* [Cancellation] Unauthorized and forged cancel messages, by such
tactics the troll believe they prevented the truth to reach the
readers!!

Despite all the above and other dirty tricks used by anti-Islam
trolls, still Muslim posters winning ALL debates.

Why? Because ALLAH on their side and they stand for noble cause,
justice peace and love without boundaries...

Ambassador Herman Ellis, in a testimony in front of the committee on
Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives of the United States
Congress on June 24th, 1985, said, "The Muslim community of the globe
today is in the neighborhood of one billion. That is an impressive
figure. But what to me is equally impressive is that Islam today is
the fastest growing monotheistic religion. This is something we have
to take into account. Something is right about Islam. It is attracting
a good many people."

Yes, something is right about Islam and that's why it has attracted so
many people throughout its 1400 years of history.

Get The Holy Quran. It is absolutely FREE

http://www.freequran.org/

Useful links

http://tinyurl.com/2482wo

http://www.muslim-answers.org/

www.islamonline.net

http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx

http://www.studying-islam.org/index.aspx
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-27 21:29:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:41:12 -0700 (PDT) TROLLS HUNTER
Post by TROLLS HUNTER
Despite all the above and other dirty tricks used by anti-Islam
trolls, still Muslim posters winning ALL debates.
Bull shit
Post by TROLLS HUNTER
Why? Because ALLAH on their side and they stand for noble cause,
justice peace and love without boundaries...
More Bull Shit.
David Moss
2008-07-14 04:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:46:01 -0400 Eli Grubman
Post by Eli Grubman
Post by üDoug±Ç
The right to remain silent.
Is that such a bad thing?
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
Why am I not surprised you are divorced?
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-14 09:51:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:16:42 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
When it comes to my ex wife, no. ;-)
Why am I not surprised you are divorced?
Why are you not surprised?

Let it all hang out - don't be backward!
Ariadne
2008-07-11 11:41:34 UTC
Permalink
On 11 Jul, 07:34, fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

...what must be the Aryan fantasia

A puff of smoke!
David Moss
2008-07-11 07:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.
I agree w/that.
Post by David Moss
Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we
have different countries.
I don't suppose there are any muslims who would want to bring sharia
law to AUS or the US though are there?
I'm sure there are. There are fundamentalist nutters in all religions,
why should Islam be any different? We certainly have Christian nutters
who want Australia to be Christian theocracy. Petzl thinks it already is.

Fortunately Australia is well set up to withstand minority pressure. In
order to change the constitution a majority of people in a majority of
States have to vote in favour of the change in a referendum.
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
From what I've seen the US doesn't import any oil from Iranistan, so I
really couldn't care less what they do.
The issue doesn't have anything to do with who the US buys oil from. The
US has had a trade embargo on the USA since the Islamic Revolution in the
70s.

The issue has to do with the currency in which oil is traded. Until now
it has been traded in US dollars, which tends to prop up the value of the
US dollar internationally. The Iranian Oil Bourse will change that. It
will trade in Euros, sidelining the US dollar and making it far more
vulnerable in the international currency marketplace.

Once all those US dollars currently used as a value store around the
world start heading home, what do you think might happen to domestic
inflation in the USA? Take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
for a preview. It has a photo of a German woman in 1923 feeding currency
into a heating stove because it burns longer than the firewood it can
purchase.
Post by üDoug±Ç
The hysteria might have more to do w/the fact that Ahmenijihad
repeatedly has called for the destruction of Israel (i.e. "Israel to
be erased from the pages of history"). But Islamic genocides of
infidels is something you support, so I suppose you wouldn't
understand anyway.
Ahmenijihad certainly wants the current State of Israel to disappear from
the pages of history, and has said so. He would prefer it to be replaced
with a State that allows Palestinians as well as Jews full citizenship
rights, and an equal opportunity to immigrate.

I have no strong opinion on the issue.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-11 14:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
I think it would be better if we stuck to our constitution, which
requires a seperation of Church and State.
I agree w/that.
Post by David Moss
Other countries can make their own arrangements, thats the reason we
have different countries.
I don't suppose there are any muslims who would want to bring sharia
law to AUS or the US though are there?
I'm sure there are. There are fundamentalist nutters in all religions,
why should Islam be any different? We certainly have Christian nutters
who want Australia to be Christian theocracy. Petzl thinks it already is.
Fortunately Australia is well set up to withstand minority pressure. In
order to change the constitution a majority of people in a majority of
States have to vote in favour of the change in a referendum.
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Hows the economy going in yours by the way? Enjoying the stagflation?
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
From what I've seen the US doesn't import any oil from Iranistan, so I
really couldn't care less what they do.
The issue doesn't have anything to do with who the US buys oil from. The
US has had a trade embargo on the USA since the Islamic Revolution in the
70s.
The issue has to do with the currency in which oil is traded. Until now
it has been traded in US dollars, which tends to prop up the value of the
US dollar internationally. The Iranian Oil Bourse will change that. It
will trade in Euros, sidelining the US dollar and making it far more
vulnerable in the international currency marketplace.
Once all those US dollars currently used as a value store around the
world start heading home, what do you think might happen to domestic
inflation in the USA? Take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
for a preview. It has a photo of a German woman in 1923 feeding currency
into a heating stove because it burns longer than the firewood it can
purchase.
Post by üDoug±Ç
The hysteria might have more to do w/the fact that Ahmenijihad
repeatedly has called for the destruction of Israel (i.e. "Israel to
be erased from the pages of history"). But Islamic genocides of
infidels is something you support, so I suppose you wouldn't
understand anyway.
Ahmenijihad certainly wants the current State of Israel to disappear from
the pages of history, and has said so. He would prefer it to be replaced
with a State that allows Palestinians as well as Jews full citizenship
rights, and an equal opportunity to immigrate.
LOL. Yeah right, just like the Jews currently residing in Iran have
"full citizenship rights". Do you actually believe your lies?
Post by David Moss
I have no strong opinion on the issue.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
David Moss
2008-07-11 22:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Ahmenijihad certainly wants the current State of Israel to disappear
from the pages of history, and has said so. He would prefer it to be
replaced with a State that allows Palestinians as well as Jews full
citizenship rights, and an equal opportunity to immigrate.
LOL. Yeah right, just like the Jews currently residing in Iran have
"full citizenship rights". Do you actually believe your lies?
Actually the Jews in Iran have seats reserved for them in Parliament and
are guaranteed freedom of religion. Many of them travel to and from Israel
regularly. In fact a recent Iraeli defence minister was born in Iran!

The situation in Iran is irrelevant to the Palestinian situation however.
Should the Palestinians establish a sovereign State to Replace Israel, it
will be they, not the Iranians, who call the shots.

The fat cats in the current state of Israel may find democracy inconvenient
however.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Sunny
2008-07-11 22:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Ahmenijihad certainly wants the current State of Israel to disappear
from the pages of history, and has said so. He would prefer it to be
replaced with a State that allows Palestinians as well as Jews full
citizenship rights, and an equal opportunity to immigrate.
LOL. Yeah right, just like the Jews currently residing in Iran have
"full citizenship rights". Do you actually believe your lies?
Actually the Jews in Iran have seats reserved for them in Parliament and
are guaranteed freedom of religion. Many of them travel to and from Israel
regularly. In fact a recent Iraeli defence minister was born in Iran!
All is not as well as you suggest, for Jews in Iran :
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html
Post by David Moss
The situation in Iran is irrelevant to the Palestinian situation however.
Should the Palestinians establish a sovereign State to Replace Israel, it
will be they, not the Iranians, who call the shots.
The fat cats in the current state of Israel may find democracy
inconvenient
however.
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-12 00:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sunny
Post by David Moss
Post by üDoug±Ç
Post by David Moss
Ahmenijihad certainly wants the current State of Israel to disappear
from the pages of history, and has said so. He would prefer it to be
replaced with a State that allows Palestinians as well as Jews full
citizenship rights, and an equal opportunity to immigrate.
LOL. Yeah right, just like the Jews currently residing in Iran have
"full citizenship rights". Do you actually believe your lies?
Actually the Jews in Iran have seats reserved for them in Parliament and
are guaranteed freedom of religion. Many of them travel to and from Israel
regularly. In fact a recent Iraeli defence minister was born in Iran!
http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html
Davey is a pathological liar (a common trait of muslims):

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=21

http://www.bahai.us/persecution-bahais-iran

http://warriorsfortruth.com/iran-christian-persecution.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bahai/history/persecution.shtml

http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Iran.htm

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=160

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 23:08:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:43:32 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Actually the Jews in Iran have seats reserved for them in Parliament
and are guaranteed freedom of religion. Many of them travel to and
from Israel regularly.
Cite please.
David Moss
2008-07-14 04:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:43:32 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Actually the Jews in Iran have seats reserved for them in Parliament
and are guaranteed freedom of religion. Many of them travel to and
from Israel regularly.
Cite please.
Always happy to help:

It comes as a surprise to many visitors to discover that Iran, a country
so hostile to Israel and with a reputation for intolerance, is home to a
small but vibrant Jewish community that is an officially recognized
religious minority under Iran's 1979 Islamic Constitution.

"[Ayatollah Ruhollah] Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel
and Zionism - he saw us as Iranians," says Haroun Yashyaei, a film
producer and chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran. Like
Iran's Armenian Christians, Jews are tolerated as "people of the book"
and allowed to practice their religion freely, provided they do not
proselytize.

They elect their own deputy to the 270-seat Parliament and enjoy certain
rights of self-administration. Jewish burial and divorce laws are
accepted by Islamic courts. Jews are conscripted into the Army.

"We are one of the oldest Jewish communities in the world," Mr. Yashyaei
says. "When Muslims came to Iran, we had already been here for
centuries."

"Take it from me, the Jewish community here faces no difficulties. If
some people left after the revolution, maybe it's because they were
scared," says Farangis Hassidim, a forceful but good-humored woman who is
charge of the only Jewish hospital in Iran. She adds: "Our position here
is not as bad as people abroad may think. We practice our religion
freely, we have all our festivals, we have our own schools and
kindergartens."
(http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1998/02/03/intl/intl.3.html)

This article appeared in the Christian Science Monitor.
Are you going to claim the CSM is a rabidly pro-Islam rag?
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-14 09:50:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:23:19 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
This article appeared in the Christian Science Monitor.
Are you going to claim the CSM is a rabidly pro-Islam rag?
No. Why should I.

Any other verification of the above?
David Moss
2008-07-14 22:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:23:19 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
This article appeared in the Christian Science Monitor.
Are you going to claim the CSM is a rabidly pro-Islam rag?
No. Why should I.
Any other verification of the above?
CSM is a pretty reliable source. I consider getting past their editor to be
sufficient verification.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-15 11:52:07 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:56:47 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
Any other verification of the above?
CSM is a pretty reliable source. I consider getting past their editor
to be sufficient verification.
An additional source would confirm - IMO one is not sufficient, no
matter how "reliable"?
David Moss
2008-07-15 23:06:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:56:47 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
Any other verification of the above?
CSM is a pretty reliable source. I consider getting past their editor
to be sufficient verification.
An additional source would confirm - IMO one is not sufficient, no
matter how "reliable"?
There we differ.

It is a fallacy that more than one source provides sufficient
verificatioon. I have written a great many political articles that have
appeared in the mainstream media. One of my techniques was to write the
same story in a number of different ways and distribute each version to a
different media outlet in the same area. Often they were printed or
broadcast verbatim. To the general public this would have appeared to be
multiple independent media outlets relating the same facts. I would also
provide a briefing sheet to the spokespeople at a State and national
level, so when they were interviewed live about the issue they could tell
a consistent story.

News isn't always what you think it is.

BTW the CSM was one of the very few media outlets that actually rang me
up to confirm a story. Most just swallowed them whole and regurgitated
them undigested to an unsuspecting public.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 10:00:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:47:52 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
BTW if you want to know why your government is getting more and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
Because the have dumped the US dollar?
Sunny
2008-07-11 05:15:21 UTC
Permalink
"David Moss" <***@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message news:***@61.9.191.5...
<snip>
Post by David Moss
BTW Sharia law gives apostates 3 days in which to express regret for
leaving Islam. If they do not express regret within 3 days, sentence is
carried out. Modern courts generally take the view that if someone does not
act within 3 days to save their own life, they can be declared mentally
incompetent and therefore excused of irrational acts such as conversion to
another religion.
How bloody humane of them.
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 09:58:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:16:07 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith."
Is that a problem?
David Moss
2008-07-11 10:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:16:07 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and insightful
analyses of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith."
Is that a problem?
That depends on how well cooked you like your news to be.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
Polly the Parrot
2008-07-11 10:48:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:40:41 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
Post by David Moss
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and
insightful analyses of situations and events facing Christians
persecuted for their faith."
Is that a problem?
That depends on how well cooked you like your news to be.
They state "situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith".

Hardly well cooked - looks straight forward to me.

As a matter of interest,in which publication would you read this
article, and give it credence?
David Moss
2008-07-11 11:23:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:40:41 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
Post by David Moss
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and
insightful analyses of situations and events facing Christians
persecuted for their faith."
Is that a problem?
That depends on how well cooked you like your news to be.
They state "situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith".
Hardly well cooked - looks straight forward to me.
As a matter of interest,in which publication would you read this
article, and give it credence?
The article itself is fatally flawed, the paragraph I gave on the news
service simply gives some background that may explain why.

The article claims:
"A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require the
death penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity"

Yet the laws of apostasy do not single out Christianity at all, they make
it illegal for Muslims to leave Islam for *any* other religion.

The article, aimed at a Christian audience, gives the misleading
impression that Iran is specifically discriminating against Christians.

The news in the article is far too well cooked for my taste. It is well
and truly overdone.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
üDoug±Ç
2008-07-11 18:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polly the Parrot
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:40:41 GMT David Moss
Post by David Moss
Post by Polly the Parrot
Post by David Moss
"Compass Direct is a Christian news service dedicated to providing
exclusive news, penetrating reports, moving interviews and
insightful analyses of situations and events facing Christians
persecuted for their faith."
Is that a problem?
That depends on how well cooked you like your news to be.
They state "situations and events facing Christians persecuted for
their faith".
Hardly well cooked - looks straight forward to me.
As a matter of interest,in which publication would you read this
article, and give it credence?
Al Taqqiya On Line would probably be one.
Dean Jones
2008-07-31 19:33:30 UTC
Permalink
A crane with a noose on the end?
Post by üDoug±Ç
A plan is being discussed by lawmakers in Iran that would require the death
penalty for anyone who leaves Islam for Christianity or someone who
promotes such a conversion even on the Internet, according to a new report
from Compass Direct News.
Those discussions of a penal code that was drafted earlier this year bring
urgency to situations such as the two men arrested recently and under
interrogation for that very crime, the report said.
The report said Iranian authorities arrested a number of converts to
Christianity in the city of Shiraz about two months ago on suspicion of
"apostasy."
Arash Bandari, 44, and Mahmood Matin, 52, were arrested at the time along
with 13 other Muslim converts to Christianity. But while the other 13 were
told they have a court case pending and then released, Bandari and Matin
have been held ever since.
The 13 who have been released have not been told of any specific charges,
but they report the nature of their questioning gives them reason to think
the allegations may include apostasy and political crimes.
The other two, Bandari and Matin, have been held almost incommunicado.
Matin's wife was able to see him for several minutes on June 24, when the
prisoner told his wife "there had been a misunderstanding and that he
could not teach Christianity any more," Compass reported.
"They are pushing me to tell them that I am connected to a church outside
[Iran] and that I am receiving a salary, but I told them that I am doing
it on my own," he said, according to a Compass source whose identity was
concealed.
Compass noted that under the existing sharia laws in Iran, the death
penalty is available for the crime of apostasy, but not required.
The proposal, however, would change that.
"If passed, the penal code drafted last January would require execution of
any Muslim who converts to Christianity," Compass said. Such punishments
could not be "changed, reduced or annulled."
"Many believe that the government intends to use the proposed penal code
to clamp down on the surge in conversions in Iran over the last few years.
Commentators have called the surge a 'mass exodus' from Islam, which in
its Iranian Shiite version imposes harsh limitations on lifestyle and
personal freedoms," Compass reported.
Iran's Members of Parliament voted only a week ago to discuss the plan as
a priority, according to Agence France-Press, which described the proposal
as to "toughen punishment for harming mental security in society."
Alarmingly, the report also documented that the death penalty would be
imposed for "establishing weblogs and sites promotion corruption,
prostitution and apostasy."
"Over the last few years, the Internet and media such as television have
been conduits of information on Christianity and are feared as sources of
'corruption' of the Iranian people," Compass reported. "The Internet is
widely used in Iran despite restricted access for thousands of websites
with 'immoral' content or content - including Christian ones - deemed as
insulting religion and promoting political dissent."
Executions in Iran totaled 317 in 2007, up from 177 in 2006, and human
rights groups say such punishments are excessive. Tehran insists death is
an "effective deterrent," according to AFP.
"Christians in particular have suffered persecution in Iran since the
Islamic revolution in 1979. No converts to Christianity have been
convicted of 'apostasy' since international pressure forced officials to
drop the death sentence of Christian convert Mehdi Dibaj in 1994. But in
the years following the convert's release, Dibaj and four other Protestant
pastors, including converts and those working with converts, have been
brutally murdered," Compass said.
The attackers in those cases never have been brought to justice.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69158
I thought it already was mandatory? There must be some sort of legal penalty
associated w/renouncing Islam. What is it currently?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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